Originally Posted By: ed good
back: "There is not a history of America accepting totalitarian regimes of any stripe"...there are those of us who believe that the regime of Lincoln, the great usurper, was about as totalitarian a central government as any yet to emerge in this country or canada.

"The histories and circumstances of the countries that fell to fascism in the 1930's were vastly different than America."...I beg to differ... in the 1930's most of the western industrialized world was suffering from the affects of the great depression. political opportunist here attempted to place the blame on political and ethnic minorities, such as, the american nazi/facist moment, the communist party and of course some readily identifiable minorities, such as blacks and jews...

a major difference between us and europeans is the level of expectation we have of our leaders. in europe, there is a long history of the people expecting their leaders to provide for them. it is generally referred to as socialism...in this country, we have a long history of self reliance. until recently, we mostly wanted our leaders to protect us from enemies, both domestic and foreign; and little else...when citizens of a country become so dependent on their government, that their very lively hood depends on the policies of the government, then the seeds are sown for political opportunist such as hitler and mussolini, to come to power by promising to do for us what we are no longer capable for doing for ourselves...sadly, this is the road we have been traveling so far in this twenty first century.


Ed, I grant you that both Europe and America were in a bad way during the 1930's. But to suggest Europeans had a "long history expecting their leaders to provide for them" is just not accurate. Yes, socialism existed then but had for just 20 years or so in any kind of meaningful way, anywhere! Most of Europe had for the previous 150 years (recent history) been ruled by autocratic royalty with various degrees of grudgingly tolerated attempts at democratic institutions. My point is that the totalitarian aspects of the fascist regimes that sprang up in the 1930's were just other versions of autocratic governments that told citizens what to do. They had been living with this type of authoritarianism for centuries.

Not true for America. Even if I accept your view of Lincoln, that is a brief hiccough in time. You correctly acknowledge the cult of individualism that is at the heart of the American experiment. And you correctly point out the problem in going down the road of state dependence. The susceptibility for political opportunists to grab power.

However, it is far more likely a grab for power is forming from the left, from Obama and his ilk, than the Tea Party and those on the right, who make as their rallying cry, a demand to return to that society of individuals and an abandonment of collectivism.

The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia