Mike,the load I use has relatively low velocity at about 1000 fps. The sight is a Burris Fast Fire III (red dot). It has been demonstrated that tungsten super shot 9s has a penetration slightly deeper than lead 4's at 62 yards fired at the same velocity. Because of it's size compared with lead, in order for lead 4's to have the same pellet count as 1 oz. of tungsten 9's, the lead load would have to be 2.5 oz. This is why the .410 load I shoot is dense enough for reliable head and neck shots at 40 yards. The tungsten shot has a density of 18 g/cc compared with lead at 12 g/cc. Here's a pound of tungsten 8's compared with a pound of lead 8's.