Keith, you are making my point for me. If in the course of 180 posts to this thread, we can't, as you suggest, change jOe's mind, an honest to goodness gun guy, what progress do you hope to make with the larger society. It has become apparent to me that the tactics are wrong. Facts, logic and a dependence of the "rights" conferred by the 2cd amendment will ultimately fail.

You make mention of the oaths of office, the systems in place for checks and balances. Those may all be true and real. But so far, in my lifetime, I don't really see them stopping the actions of those who would seek to dramatically change things. Why? Because before they change the laws (legally or illegally) they changed public opinion first.

We have either been missing that point, haven't thought it important up till now or been remarkably ineffective in our own public opinion swaying efforts.

Last edited by canvasback; 03/01/13 10:17 AM.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia