Originally Posted By: Toby Barclay
Daryl, at the risk of teaching how to suck eggs, the dovetail joints are usually even more visible than the chopperlump joint. OWD, I assume that 'round-bar' equates to dovetail?
I bow to the more knowledgable on the issue of use of chopperlump v. dovetail but , Bushveld, on a minor point the proof marks are 1896 thru to 1904, not just 1896, this is the start date of the 'Maximum' mark, dropped in 1904.
As I understand it, H&H didn't start a date based numbering system until 1899 with 22000 so a call/email to H&H to establish date might be useful if for no better reason than idle curiosity.
Since the last gun number used in the period to 1899 was 16999, I suggest that this Royal dates from the very end of this period and so most likely barreled and finished in the London factory. Contrary to popular belief, the 1st Harrow Rd factory dates from 1891 and the 2nd premises in 1898 (according to Nigel Brown) and increasingly the Royals were brought 'in house' to improve quality control throughout this period.
Forgive me if I have missed something!


Tony;

Thanks. I suspect that you and I use the same reference book (Donald Dallas), and I have a question for you.

Donald Dallas in his book "Holland & Holland the Royal Gunmakers" states on page 234 that H&H Nos. 16,563-16,999 are for guns for years 1896-97. And on the same page he records later that Royal guns begin with serial Nos. 22,000. Do you think that the gun is question is a early Royal without H&H recording it as a Royal?

By-the-way, re-read my comment on the proof mark date which was: "...have the correct 1896 period proof marks." I did not imply that this proof mark was only for 1896. As you and I know these proof marks were used 1896 to 1904.

Also of note and interest: Dig's book has one of the best chart's on British proof marks I have ever encountered.