Trapshooter's "Joe Morgan" elbow pump during the mount produces same result as shrug. I don't think the brim on that Elliot Ness lid projects as far as does a long-billed baseball cap nor does it appear to flop down Fedora-style. Still think it's stiff necks sticking thru those celluloid collars that produced low stocks. Don't know what to do with PA rifles which are cracked down to a faretheewell? Need to find lots of pix of shooters with collarless shirts; take a look at their head attitude. Anybody have a database of drop dimensions on trapguns? How about those pumpguns? Somebody mentioned oldtime champ shooting Win M97. How were those stocked? Those Black Diamonds stocked higher than a plainjane field gun?

jack