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Sidelock
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Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein



........Larry, I believe trying to assign a sensible value to anything with the Parker, Winchester, or, both names, will be useless in a comparison of just about any other make of shotgun.
You can probably put graded Foxes in there as well.....


Best,
Ted


Truer words never spoken.


The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Assigning a single reason as to why the market values a particular shotgun the way it does is a fallacy. Weight may be one factor. There are likely lots of others. It's like when the talking heads on tv say the market was down on profit taking or up based on consumer confidence. It's almost never a single factor. And there are lots of things that go into collectibility. Just because something is rare does not make it collectible.


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Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
There have to be far less than 1100 of those, here. Nice gun, but, both examples I handled did not have ejectors.
No ejectors on a sidelock is a non starter for a lot of buyers.

Best,
Ted


The Brits think sidelock nonejectors are decidedly odd. The only gun I ever bought over there was a very nice A&N 12ga SLNE. Had it shipped back to the States, in a new Brady case. I think the cost, all in, was not much more than $1500. (That's back when they could ship via Datapost, and shipping costs were much less than they are now.) Did the import through a local FFL dealer. (They can do "occasional" imports.) Picked it up at my little rural post office, with the postmistress collecting customs duty, etc.

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Sidelock
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Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein




As to the 28 gauge repros, would they sell for anywhere near what they do if there had never been original Parkers built in 28 gauge?

I have my doubts. I dont shop for them, but, there seem to be no shortage of perfect, in the box, repros of all sorts at the shows I go to. Somebody collects them.

Best,
Ted


Well Ted . . . since the Reproduction is a reproduction of the original, there might not even be 28ga Repros if there hadn't been 28ga originals. Yeah, I know Tony Galazan made some 28ga Foxes even though neither Ansley nor Savage ever made any original 28's. But then he doesn't call his guns reproductions either.

The 28ga Repros sell for what they do because, in the opinion of a lot of hunters looking for lightweight small bore sxs, they hit the "lightweight" button a whole lot better than the 20ga Repro does. If sales were based on the collectible factor, 12's would bring more money than either 20's or 28's because fewer of them were made than either of the small gauge guns.

And when a 28ga Repro in very good shape sells for less than a new AyA 4/53 these days (let alone a Spanish sidelock!), and when you compare what you get (a really nice case is included), why should it come as any surprise that they bring the $ they do? They're pretty popular grouse and woodcock guns, relatively speaking, in this part of the country. They'd sell even better, IMO, if more of them had been made with 28" barrels (longer barrels seeming to be the "in" thing these days) and DT. And if the ones with 28" barrels weren't nearly all choked M/F--the constrictions being M/F for a 12 rather than for a 28.

Meanwhile, the BSS Sidelock 20 remains--IMO--both underappreciated (by both hunters and collectors) and underpriced. I'm not sure why. Not that I think 28ga Repros are overpriced, when you look at the 28ga sxs competition.


I dont believe for a minute that a 12 gauge version of something will ever sell for what the 28 gauge version of same will, regardless of number produced.

Larry, I believe trying to assign a sensible value to anything with the Parker, Winchester, or, both names, will be useless in a comparison of just about any other make of shotgun.
You can probably put graded Foxes in there as well.

You are right back to my original point. The BSS sidelock represents a hell of a value to anybody looking for a sidelock gun, usable with modern ammunition.
Either gauge.

Best,
Ted


Well Ted, most of the time you could say the same thing about sxs 20's. They sell for more than the same gun in 12ga. Not the same premium as a 28ga, but definitely a price bump. Except there isn't really one in Parker Repros, 20 vs 12. One issue may be the fact that people looking for sxs 20's are mostly looking for a lighter weight gun for hunting. And when you buy a Repro 20, you're only gaining a few ounces compared to a 12. Meanwhile, you buy a Repro 28 . . . well, I've owned Repro 28's that weigh a POUND less than the Repro 20 I now own (which I wouldn't own except for the set of 16ga barrels.) The fact that there were 3x as many Repro 20's made in comparison to 12's may also be a factor.

But the Browning name also carries some clout, Ted. And if you look at Belgian Superposeds, there's a significant premium, 20ga vs 12ga. Frankly, I'm surprised there's not more of a premium for 20ga BSS Sidelocks. I do think it's a very good gun for the money. But then the relatively recent and very significant price increase in Spanish sidelocks also makes the used ones--like my little Grulla--a hell of a value. But in general, there's far more competition in the market when you're talking 20ga vs 28ga. (Which is one reason you'll pay more for a Repro 28 than you will a BSS Sidelock 20.) Looking for a light 20? You need to throw in the American classics--in particular the Foxes, both thanks to the late Mr. McIntosh and to the fact that they can be very light--if someone is on the hunt for a 20ga sxs. A Fox AE 20 will cost you more than your BSS Sidelock . . . and twice as much as my Grulla sidelock. Prices on Brit 20's can be crazy too, even if the market for Brit 12's is definitely on the soft side. But they made an even smaller proportion of
20's compared to 12's.

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