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This is a Nutrition thread.

Many years ago I lost a beloved dog to the effects of Diabetes. At that time I did quite a bit of research, and switched my last dog's diet. He lived to around 18 years, and was very active until the last few weeks of his life.

Since then, I acquired a Setter that had diabetes as well, and was able to alleviate the condition in one week. With the dog since regaining complete health, turning back into a hard-going hunter clearly in his prime. I also acquired another Setter as well, I like Braces, who turned from a sedate kennel dog into a lithe hunting machine in prefect health. It's all about the Nutrition, and making the decision to go the "Extra Mile" and make my own Dog Food. It's really pretty easy, and certainly prolongs a dog's life considerably.

Commercial dog foods are in no way natural, on a biochemical basis, to what Canines ate in the wild or at any time during Canine Evolution. They are what is called "Evolutionarily Discordant", and consequentially create significant detrimental effects on a Dog's Health. This discordency manifests itself in two ways, the first way being on a Macronutrient level, the second one being in regard to Micronutrients.

Macronutrient discordency deals with the percentages of the three macronutrients, Protein, Carbohydrates, and Fat. Typical dog food is carbohydrate based, with around 20-27% Protein, 10-12% Fat, with the rest being Carbohydrate. This contrasts sharply with what a predator would eat in the Wild, which is approx. 60% Fat, 35% Protein, and only 5% Carbohydrate. This creates, on a biochemical level, a hyperinsulinemic dietary hormonal secretion patterns. This is why dogs are used in diabetes pharma trials, as it's easy to induce diabetes in dogs, either nutritionally or surgically. This is very detrimental for canines, and dramatically reduces their life spans. The Wild, or evolutionary nutrition pattern on a biochemical level induces a glucagon based hormonal secretion pattern, (Glucagon is the antagonist hormone to insulin) which is natural for dogs, and results in considerable longevity and good health.

Micronutrient discordency deals with the specific micronutrients found in dog food, with gluten being the main culprit. Current regulations for dog food also do not require listing of chemicals used in the rendering process to make protein meal, and consequentially many of those used are highly toxic. Many of the preservatives used are also not approved for human consumption, and can be toxic as well.

Here's my recipe. It's fairly easy and makes a large quantity. Since it's so nutrient dense, you don't need to feed much per day. My dogs get one-half pound of it a day, split into two meals, with one meal getting a half of a chopped hard boiled egg, shell and all, for the calcium. This recipe makes 12 days of food for an active medium sized dog like a Setter. I usually make a double batch since I have two dogs. That's approx 1100-1200 calories per day. Bioavailability is high, with only a little fiber added. Now, I never have to scoop my yard, as the dog feces turns white and rapidly dissolves.

The recipe:

Three to three and a half pounds of meat. This corresponds to a ten pound bag of chicken hindquarters, once they're cooked and deboned. I chop that coarsely in a food processor. Now, I've found a nearby meat locker that sells me "saw trim" they're not able to sell for human consumption. I use that raw. Qne and one half pounds of beef fat, bought from the meat department of my local grocery store. I also coarsely chop that raw in the processor. One to one and a half pound of organs, usually chicken liver, but I'll use beef kidney when it's available at the locker. Cooked and coarsely chopped. Lastly, a one pound bag of chopped broccoli to provide a little fiber. That's cooked in the microwave, cooled and chopped as well. Everything is mixed by hand in a large bowl, just like when you're making sausage. I then package in small containers that chip dip have come in, the 16 oz. size. This results in right at one pound of food, at around 2200 calories per container. I keep'em in the freezer, putting them in the fridge to thaw the day before. For two dogs, I use one container per day. Cost for everything is right at one dollar per pound, with the resulting cost being around $.50 per day, per dog. Less expensive and considerably more healthy than commercial dog food.

I can't get my pooch to eat raw meat. I've tried the $10 a pound organic ground rabbit from the doggie deli (actually, the owner of the company I work at did, when he heard of my dog's health issues) too, and it was a no-go.

Best,
Ted

Count your blessings Ted. My old Lab Suwannee relentlessly ate the 1st four or five doves he retrieved on every shoot. I always tried to take a stand next to the best shot on the field so he could fill up on other peoples birds...Geo

Cooked is fine. Save the fat and add it back in as part of the fat portion. Chicken is easier to debone when cooked. Chicken fat is very healthy. My first Setter wouldn't eat raw meat or raw eggs. Now, he chows down on'em.

A great meal for a dog is a half-dozen eggs, shell and all.

Ken, that sounds worth trying. My grandmother cooked beef kidneys for her dogs and I remember the pee like smell from kidneys cooking in her kitchen. Taffy lived to be 18 and Shing about the same.

I have a friend who has a 9 year-old EP that developed an allergy to animal protein almost two years ago. The dog was on its last legs near death with a severe weight loss when the vet school at UGA solved the health riddle which had defied area vets. He now eats a special diet of amino acids substituted for the animal protein element in his diet. This incredible dog is not only broke to wing and shot on quail, but takes hand signals on a dove field. A whistle blast, he spins around and sits and takes hand signals. He sits on a tree stand above the water on flooded timber woodie shoots.
For my two Britts, I haven't completely abandoned dry foods, but I reduce the amount of dry food (Taste of the Wild) by substituting cooked sweet potatoes and chicken dark meat quarters. Three parts dry food, one part cooked food. I boil 7-8 lbs. of sweet potatoes and separately slow cook the same weight of bone-in dark chicken meat. When cool, I remove the meat from the bone (some dissolve from the slow cooking process overnight) and mix with the potatoes. It makes a gallon and a half in 6 quart yogurt containers and I freeze all but one quart. I keep the liquid from the chicken which makes about 2 quarts. I freeze one quart and use the rest in my 1 year-old's dry food with the chicken potato mix. She was a fussy eater with dry food. I feed once a day in the evening.
This guy has the raw meat feeding down pat. Smithers, release the hounds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNKfucd0HYo

I have to admit I don't follow it too closely, but I thought raw egg was a canine, no no. I've also tended to stay away from green plant fiber sources, but I forget why. Good and interesting topic.

Raw eggs are fine. I'm not saying to feed them exclusively, but they are the "Perfect Food" as far as protein, fats, and micronutrients. Green, as well as other plants, are not normally used as a calorie source. In the recipe the broccoli (very high-fiber) is merely there to "push things along".

You have to watch out about what people say about feeding dogs things other than commercial dog food. There are plenty of dog food company shills out there.

Feeding a dog carbohydrates such as sweet potatoes and brown rice defeats the purpose of the nutritional concept. They cause the detrimental, insulin-based hormonal secretion pattern, rather than the beneficial glucagon based one. All this anti-fat, pro-carbohydrate pap when it comes to dog food is strictly unscientific. GLS, you should eliminate the carbs and switch to fat as the main calorie source. Marketing is based to sell dog food to people, and has little to do with actual doggie health. Just take a look what what is portrayed on many bags. Mmmm, yummy peas and carrots, no doubt my dog will love'em. Hogwash.

If you think kidneys are bad, try Chitlins. They're like "Easter Candy" to a dog.

Food for thought (and dogs). Gil

Let's do a little comparison between Beef Fat and Sweet Potato as energy sources.

A pound of cooked Sweet Potato has around 400 calories.

A pound of Beef Fat has around 4,000.

Which do you think is a more natural, as far as Canine Evolution, for dogs?

The point of switching to a fat-based, moderate protein, plan is that it is natural for dogs as far as optimum health.

It works the same for humans, as far as fat loss. It switches the body to burn fat as the primary energy source, not only the fat you eat, but the fat you have stored. This is exactly how I lost over 200 lbs. of body fat, never regaining an ounce back in over ten years. I followed the same macronutrient percentage profile.

The only conceivable situation I can think of to feed a dog a carbohydrate-based diet is if you're fattening up the dog in order to EAT it.

GLS,

I suspect that your friend's dog is still being fed a carbohydrate-based diet. I suspect the condition would be alleviated if switched to a fat-based one.