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Joined: Dec 2006
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I am not looking to get a guaranteed statement that my damascus gun will function properly for another 100 years to come, being shot at high pressures. I wonder about the lack of valid data after 150 years of use of hundred thousand guns with damascus barrels or fluid steel. Big sample over a long period of time.
Using this kind of data one could predict the chances of failure of a certain barrel of a certain wall thickness, etc. That prediction will still not give anybody 100% guarantee that one would be safe using the gun, but it would provide the best answer one can get. And the controversy would be over.

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Basically you're asking for the impossible. To begin with, each damascus tube is unique. No two ever made were identical. Just the nature of their manufacture would lead me to think there was a tremendous variation piece to piece. Then, they were assembled into working guns differently. The dovetailing and brazing of the lug onto the barrel tended to weaken the structure somewhat. And that was all done by hand--again a huge variance. And heaven only knows what the guns have had to endure over the past 100 years plus. No data base will ever be assembled that has any statistical reliability. So, where does that leave us? Simply to examine each piece and judge for ourselves its servicability. I know that flies in the face of the current generation that demands firm, quantifiable answers but it just ain't gonna happen. In the meantime, I'm choosing to take life and limb in hand and go shoot another round of skeet with my questionable damascus.


When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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Joe,

All that variance will be included in the end results. The problem is collecting the data. I don't know why we got to the point where we have to blow up 15 guns to find out what's happened over 150 years with thousands of guns. We have the field observations of owners/hunters/shooters and gunsmiths. That is valuable info, but not structured enough to predict the chances of damage of the average damascus barrel.
When taken barrel by barrel, statistical approach is weak, therefore each barrel should be judged on its own merits. When you ask a gunsmith about the safety of your barrels he will tell you that they are PROBABLY safe or not. His judgement is based on experience and data he collects on that particular barrel. But individual experience is exactly that.
I am faced with one question: What are my chances of blowing up a damascus barrel if I shoot 7000psi ammo. What if I shoot 10,000psi? How many rounds would a damascus barrel last on average basis? What is the minimum barrel wall thickness to decrease the chance of barrel blow up below 1 in a mil?

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I am of similar thoughts on the super low pressures and particularly the slow powders. My load of damascus moves 1 oz @ 1150 fps with 6500psi using Hodgden Clays. I feel the Clays powder is a good choice of burnrate to stay out of trouble.

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Joe thar's the point I was trying to make.

The only thing I saw that Bells tests proved were they didn't blow up that firing.

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A problem is stigma reporting a damascus barrel burst. Well known Parkerite had a burst barrel when a modern shell was fired in error, let us just say it was in the eastern U.S. about 2 yrs ago. Yep it did happen but nary a word about it on the wsites. Those reading here might say it was a barrel obstruction but considre the odds of that happeneing when the shell that caused the burst was a modern factory shell taken from hunting vest in error. Nope it wasn't a proof load just one loaded to current Saami specifications about 12k psi. Yep that barrel might have had internal corrosion or a mfg. flaw but how do you know yours doesn't?

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You have to compare apple to apples and possibly each barrel against itself or own merit. There can be small perturbations in each tube due to manufacturing and later oxidation; therefore, in order to establish a baseline, techniques like X-ray or Magnaflux, non-destructive testing like the Austrians have the option of using, would need to be employed to identify the problem areas and then the destructive testing could commence.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 04/20/08 08:12 AM.
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As reported in the March/April 08 Shooting Sportsman, these folks will proof test barrels for $420:
H.P. White Laboratory, Inc.
Maryland
http://www.hpwhite.com
410-838-6550

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I allow myself one damascus gun at a time - just to have. This time around, it's a Remington 1894 AE 12g., which is pretty beefy and in top condition. Bought enough Gamebore black powder shells at the time and that's what it shoots.
I still do cast a weary eye at it(like a spider on your bedroom ceiling), but it looks so good behind the kitchen door. Goes well with a pot of chickin!

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I keep a log of every shot thru one of my favorite hammer damascus 12ga. guns, so far it's 11,402. When I got it the first thing I did was pick a nice low pressure 7/8 load at 1150fps and 6000psi. I am not afraid of a blow- up as much as I don't see the point in beating up the old gun and myself with recoil. This summer I'll probably run another 5 to 5500 more rounds thru it on skeet and sporting clay ranges, I have all the faith in the world in this gun the next one maybe not, as stated before each gun must be judged on it's on merits. I do feel the low pressure nitro handloads are kinder on the gun than blackpowder loads, just my opinion. See ya; Bonehill

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