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Joined: Mar 2008
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 75 |
During my two year tour down here in Souh Africa, I have seen a number of Belgium proofed .410 double barrel "Poachers" folding shotguns. They all seemed quite well made and and come in a number of different grades and configurations. A skeletonized buttstock being most notable.
Yes you guessed it I could not go home without one, well two actually. Export papers no problem. Import papers no problem, except when it came identifing the maker. I got on Little Gun BE and got one ID'd as a Georges Laloux. The other was tougher. We settled on Leclercq, Manufacture Liegiose d'Amres du Fues and ATF blessed me.
All this research however led me to a different conclusion. There are a lot a different Belgium companies listing these little shotguns as part of their inventory. But I don't believe all these identical guns were made by all these different makers.
That brings me to my question. What is the Systeme Leclerc and who really made all thses little guns?
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,882 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,882 Likes: 201 |
The Double D:
Did there happen to be a "T." before "Leclercq"? And was it made in the late 19th Century? Leclercq turned out pinfire firearms in Liege between 1871 and 1874. Also, a 1937 "Midland Gun Company" catalogue has 2 that are of English Make and 2 that are not, but it doesn't give the country of origin.
Kind Regards,
Raimey rse
Last edited by ellenbr; 03/22/08 12:52 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 75
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 75 |
No the proofs on these two guns were in the 1950's. I did see several companies listing Le Clerc Systeme in the 1920's and it appeared to be these little guns.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,384 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,384 Likes: 106 |
DD, I think you're after Manufacture Liegeoise d'Armes a Feu, which simply means Liege Firearms Manufacturing. I believe they were in business at least through the 50's.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 75
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 75 |
Actully what I am looking for is information on the LeClerc Systeme. MLdF is just one of then many companies that sold them.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20l/a%20leclercq%20leon%20gb.htmLeon LeClercq was an armour who was active from 1908-1940. Over the years he had shops in Belgium, Spain and France. I can find no record of him holding a patent of any type for sporting guns. I believe "LeClercq Systeme" may have been just good marketing, though I could be wrong. The 1st .410 gun we have evidence of was proofed circa 1870's in London. It remained largely a British cartridge with American's preferring the 44-shot, aka 44XL, a 44-40 loaded with shot. On the continent they preferred a variety of other rounds. Around 1915 the 410 appeared here. It became popular here and in Europe in the 1920's. These folding guns became very popular because of the advent of the bicycle and eventually the car. Because of this, most have seen hard use. They were marketed as ladies guns, boys guns, taxidermists gun, bicycle guns, etc. Hope you enjoy the guns. Pete
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 75
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 75 |
Thanks, Pete. These are neat little guns. Most I have seen down here are not in the bad of shape.
Leclerc must have had a hand in the marketing and sales of these little guns as a wholesaler as many other Gun Makers showed them in their inventory and sell them as Systeme LeClerc.
I paid a bit more than I wanted, but that's another story. Never take your wife gun shopping....When we went in to start dickering she was with me. She looked at the figured wood and color case on the solid stock model and used words like, cute adorable, pretty. I asked the guy how much each and he said a price. Before I could say "would you take...? She says we will take them...we had a talk about that later. None the less from the time we made the deal to the time I went to pick up the Rand to pay for them, the Rand dropped from 7.3 to the dollar to 8.3. So that saved me about $20 a gun...
lately I have heard her talking about "Her" gun...what do you mean we kimo sabe?
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
DD, I believe you are correct about LeClercq. Good story about buying the guns. I have had some similar experiences, much to my chagrin. On the upside, she enjoys shooting, so you always have a partner. When you get a chance, post some pictures. I would enjoy seeing the guns. Pete
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 75
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 75 |
Pictures are a couple months away. The guns have to go to the Exporter it Witbank for the export permiyd and then air freight to the US.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 75
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 75 |
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