doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Win 21 Trigger Problem

I need help from someone that has experience with a "balking" M21 trigger. Here is the story. My 1948 vintage M21 field grade has periodically doubled (fired both barrels at once) for several years. When it happened I would tighten the screw through the tang under the trigger guard about a quarter turn or so and shoot it with no problems for 500-600 rounds. The "fix" was repeated when it doubled again. The last time this happened, the fix didn't work so I decided it was time to have someone look at it.

I took it to a well known gun shop for the work. When the gun was returned I tried it out. The work sheet said the left sear had been recut. In about 25 pair of targets, the gun doubled once with the left barrel selected to fire first, but the main thing was that now the second barrel didn't always fire when the trigger was pulled (balking - the hammer dropped with a time delay after the trigger was pulled). It happened with either barrel selected first but primarily when the left barrel was selected. And, there were two complete failures to fire with the trigger being pulled multiple times. When it balked, the gun might fire when the trigger was released after the first pull or after one or more extra trigger pulls. The first barrel always fired when it was supposed to regardless of which barrel was selected.

The gun was returned to the gun shop, more work was done (the trigger was "adjusted") and the gun was tried again yesterday on about 30 pair of targets. This time there was no doubling, but there were three balks with the left barrel selected first and three balks and four failures to fire with the right barrel selected first. This is almost the reverse of the trial after the first repair. This time most of the balks were similar in timing to a hang fire when a gun goes off a split second after the trigger is pulled and the hammer has dropped and popped the primer. The difference is that this gun fires only when the hammer drops and the hammer does not drop when the trigger is pulled. There is NO snapping of the hammer, a delay, then the gun fires. Apparently, the trigger mechanism is not cleanly selecting the second barrel.

I will be returning the gun to the shop on Monday and would appreciate some good knowledge of what's happening or what to look for to impart to the smith they have do the work.

Thanks,

Johnpe

They have no idea what they are doing. Take it somewhere else. What area of the country are you in? Someone will tell you where you might go to get good work.

Eightbore is right on target! Get this to someone who knows what they are doing! I hope the guy you've been using hasn't done to much damage that may be costly to fix.

Run-Don't walk from this smith!

Thanks for the replies, and the advice given is the way I would normally have already gone. However, this case a little different. This is a company that has and does work on a bunch of double guns and I am sure they have someone that knows something about M21's or at least I hope so. I need to get the gun in that person's hands, speak with the authority of knowledge and also know that when I'm told something it's truthful.

Johnpe

John, if they did know, your gun would be fixed.

This sounds like a sticky inertia block. My guess is over lubrication, OR the tang-tang distance still isn't right.

The second trigger pull is blocked by the inertia block. If this won't move back into position, no bang. If the movement is sluggish, bang could be delayed as you describe.

The trigger is sensitive to tang-tang distance as you know, and gooey stuff or weak spring could cause described problem.

Well, John, you will do as you will do, but you better jump ship and send it somewhere that really does know what they are doing with a M21.

ShotgunJones your comments are very much in line with my thoughts. If this round doesn't get it fixed, it will definitely go to someone else. I've stayed with this company since they nationally have an extremely good reputation and I can't think there is something seriously wrong with the trigger. After all it's functioned perfectly (switching barrels) for probably 40,000 or more shells knowing the use it got from the good friend I purchased it from. It then started messing up (balking) while some other problem was being worked on that did not or should not have required messing with the switching mechanism.

Thanks,

Johnpe

Johnpe - I wish you luck getting this right.

Other than Galazan's (and Andy W. before his business went bad) I don't know who's known to be knowledgeable about M-21 gunsmithing based on their personal hands-on experience working on 21s. Can someone who does know please share a name or two?

Jay

I had a problem with a Model 21 that was made for me by CSMC. It was fanfiring...not quite a simultaneous doubling.
This is not too uncommon with a M21 and, certainly, not uncommon with a new RBL (it happened with mine..lots of posts on RBL trigger issuses) which uses a M21 type trigger.
They are the ones who will fix this right the first time. They will do this quickly and you can start having fun again.
Who knows more than the people who build the gun?

I know CSMC's service reputation is excellent with folks who bought new guns from them. My experience with their work on a Win. 21 was unsatisfactory, and made me think their best, experienced people work primarily on CSMC guns rather than on guns they didn't make.

So guys, who else would you trust to work on your Win. 21?