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#8843 - 11/06/06 11:35 AM Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun
Deltaboy Offline
Junior Member
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Registered: 10/15/06
Posts: 130
Loc: MS
I have a .22 cal. shotgun with no rifles in the barrel. The choke opening measures .385 in or 9.71 MM. Shoots "22 long shot". I know this is a silly question but what choke would this equal? This gun was made by Stoeger Arms Corporation of New York, with ZEPHYR on barrel. Action by J. G. Anschutz.Should make a good kids target gun. Or rat killer supreme.

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#8859 - 11/06/06 01:16 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: Deltaboy]
2-piper Offline
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Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 10080
Loc: Lynchburg TN
Deltaboy;
This gun is made on the order of the old "Rutledge" bore. They were .22 size for a part of their bore, about 6" as I recall then stepped up to a larger bore & choked at the muzzle. At one point in time a game of miniature skeet was attempted to be popularized, called "Mo-Skeet-O". As to amount of choke you would simply have to measure the bore behind the choke & take the difference. A few tests for patterning ability would of course tell you the most as to it's effectiveness.
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#8861 - 11/06/06 01:25 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: 2-piper]
PeteM Offline
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4507
Loc: IL
Miller,

Not to hi-jack the thread, but were did that term, Rutledge, come from?

Pete

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#8867 - 11/06/06 02:10 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: PeteM]
2-piper Offline
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Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 10080
Loc: Lynchburg TN
Pete; I am a little fuzzy on it's history, but believe it was developed by a Mr Rutledge. Seems he was a designer for either Winchester or Remington, not sure which, maybe neither. I do recall reading about them from years past. Should be someone here with the details on this, Help!! I think that maybe Mossberg had a hand in the Mo-Skeet-O game, but didn't develope the Rutledge Bore.
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#8869 - 11/06/06 02:21 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: 2-piper]
Deltaboy Offline
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Registered: 10/15/06
Posts: 130
Loc: MS
I remember trying to break small clay targets as a child in the back yard. Trying.

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#8870 - 11/06/06 02:27 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: Deltaboy]
Dave Katt Offline
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Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 2038
Loc: Western Ohio
Remington had a 22 based on the 510 series called a Rutledge and it was marked so on the barrel. I can't remember if it was Mossberg or Rem. that had a sort of thrower that attached to the barrel and it threw a small clay target that the shooter could trip. Someone also made a thrower that tossed Ritz type crackers. I thought it looked like fun, but never tried it. I have heard of guys tramping fields with these guns though and wingshooting grasshoppers.

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#8871 - 11/06/06 02:32 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: Dave Katt]
BrentD Offline
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Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 2185
Loc: Iowa
Some of these were made and sold for the museum trade. They are used to whack sparrow sized birds off of branches w/o destroying their value as study skin specimens. They work a WHOLE lot better than rifled barrels.

Inserts are also made for .20 gauge and probably other gauges of shotguns. They are the size and length of a shotsell cartridge and bored to chamber a .22 shotshell off centered so that it can be fired with the normal firing pin.

Brent

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#8873 - 11/06/06 02:44 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: BrentD]
Deltaboy Offline
Junior Member
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Registered: 10/15/06
Posts: 130
Loc: MS
I've got one of those cracker throwers. My wife got tired of throwing them but the springer never got tired of eating them:)

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#8905 - 11/06/06 06:29 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: Deltaboy]
james-l Offline
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Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 968
Loc: California
My recollection is that Remington made the ultimate gun, a 121 pump. There was an article somewhere about shooting dragonflys with it, I think it may have been in Gun Digest. I don't recall that Purdey made any.
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#8910 - 11/06/06 07:21 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: james-l]
tanky Offline
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Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 242
Loc: New Jersey
I have a Mossberg smooth bore 22 that was given to me without a bolt or clip. It sat around for years and looked like scrap Iron to me. A little rusty on the outside. One day I ran a patch thrue the barrel and was suprised to see that it was pristine and a smooth bore. Now that explaned why the muzzle was threaded. I thought it was for a silencer. I picked up a bolt at a gun show and a friend made a choke for it. Now when I go carpenter bee hunting I can hit them at 15 feet rather than 5 feet with the cylinder bore.

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#8912 - 11/06/06 07:30 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: james-l]
Don Moody Offline
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Registered: 02/25/02
Posts: 3205
Loc: The Republic of Texas
No, James, the ultimate gun was the Winchester Model 61 smoothbore. This was the gun that Fred Routledge of Monroe, Michigan had made up in 1938.
The first Model 61 smoothbores had the Routledge counterbore(.40 caliber 13 inches back from the muzzle. They had a 5/16 in. grooves on the receiver top.
The second style had Winchester counterbore(5/16in. 8 inches back from the muzzle. they were made with both grooved and smooth top receivers(very rare).
The third style were not counterbored and had receivers grooved for scopes.


Edited by Don Moody (11/06/06 08:08 PM)
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#8956 - 11/06/06 11:24 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: Don Moody]
PeteM Offline
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Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4507
Loc: IL
The Targo came out around 1948, though Mossberg was hyping it before hand. The complete setup was the gun, screw on choke, gun attached thrower, a hand thrower, targo clays and a net that was to catch the clays you missed so you could reuse them. The gun was a Mossberg model 42TR.






I believe the complete package was call the Mo-Skeet-O. The clays were $6.50 per thousand, that included shipping from NY.

Pete

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#8983 - 11/07/06 07:51 AM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: PeteM]
Mike Armstrong Offline
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Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1026
Loc: Seal Beach, CA
I have a Remington 510 single shot with the Routledge bore. We used it to keep house finches (called "linnets" in Norhern Cal in my day) and blue jays from eating all the prunes, cherries, etc. Quite legal and politically correct in those days (and highly endorsed by our barn cats....). Now starlings are probably considered "songbirds" in Sonoma County....

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#9015 - 11/07/06 12:22 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: tanky]
Claybird Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 280
Loc: Ringoes, New Jersey
I used to teach Mo-Skeet for a scout camp, back in the 50's (along with riflery and archery). It was a great way to get youngsters interested in moving targets.

The target-thrower was made, I believe, by Mossberg. It did not attach to the gun barrel; rather it was a small version of your standard back-yard target thrower. I still have a couple of dozen of those targets; they are sort of like sporting clays "minis."

We used Remington single shots (Model 513?)with the Routledge bore, and so marked on the barrel. I have a Remington pump smoothbore, about 25 years old, which does not however have that bore.

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#9023 - 11/07/06 01:20 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: Don Moody]
OB Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 01/01/02
Posts: 474
Loc: Texas
The "Routledge" bore was developed by trapshooter Fred Routledge in 1938. The idea was to allow indoor skeet and trap shooting at tiny (2-5/8" dia)clay targets named "Moskeeto". The targets were thrown 75 ft. The Routledge bore would pattern about 80% (92 - #12 pellets) at 35 ft. Winchester made the Mod 61 with the Routledge bore until about 1940 when they designed their own counter bored barrel. It was very similar to the Routledge, but differed in the length of the counter bore and bore dia.

Simmons installed vent ribs on a few Mod 61's making them look a lot like a miniature Mod. 12.

OB

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#9042 - 11/07/06 03:54 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: OB]
Deltaboy Offline
Junior Member
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Registered: 10/15/06
Posts: 130
Loc: MS
I typed Targo targets in Google and got several Ebay hits. A lot to be learned here. Thanks.

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#9110 - 11/07/06 09:51 PM Re: Not a Double but a .22 cal Shotgun [Re: tanky]
Gerald A. Mele Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 642
Loc: Central CA
I have a rem model 4 falling block smoothbore. Shoots up to LR. My grandfather used to shoot blackbirds for the pot with it. He also used it for years at his job as a janitor/maintance man at a floating gas tank while working for Pacfic Gas & Electric Co. in Fresno. He shot pigeons off of the roof with it.

I still love playing with it.

Jerry

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