doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Value NID 5E trap?

I know of a 5E NID double trap gun that I think won the Grand America in the 1930s. I have to do a little more to verify the details but Im pretty sure the story is legitimate. The gun is in nice condition ST AE BT VR like a good trap gun. I have seen 4E double trap guns for around 3k but dont know of any 5E doubles that have sold.

What is a 5E double trap going for, if it was used in and won the Grand does that add premium, and what would the award for winning the Grand (a silver plate I think) be worth?
Thanks, Ross

Steve Barnett just listed a ton of Ithaca SBT's last week including several 5E's. A 1980 gun for $6950, a 1967 gun for $5750 and a restored/restocked 1926 gun for $3950.

Reb, the 5E NID doubles usually have vent ribs, beavertails, etc. It is rare to see them in field configuration. Then, too, most trap guns have been altered. To get an unaltered, high condition one, I'd say 6K or so. Most will have SSTs too.

Agree with Daryl. Hard to find one that is unaltered in high condition. Trap shooters love to alter their guns. If the gun won the Grand Am it might add a little bit of a premium, depending on the provenance. If the silver plate goes with the gun that should help.

I saw one last yr at a BassPro that was overall in very good condition but for being about 12 1/2" LOP. They wanted $4k

Rick,
this is a double barrel trap, not a SBT. I wonder where all the Barnett guns came from. Thats a pile of SBT guns!
Thanks for the help,
Ross

Do you know who the shooter was? You probably know this but the ATA office should be able to tell you some info, at least the name of the winner. IMHO range is $5000 to $6500.

"Won the Grand American" is an easy research project. We only need to know the year and/or the name. Give us the year or the name and year and we will give you more information.

Ross: Tami Daniel is the Operations Manager for the Trapshooting Hall of Fame & Museum tdaniel@shootata.com
I'm researching a LC Crown owned by Otto Newlin, winner of the 1927 GAH. She was most helpful and sent me several pictures of Otto and copies from the Sportsmen's Review with the stories.

From the Trapshooting Hall of Fame, the winner of the 1930 Grand American Handicap was Alfred Rufus King of Wichita Falls, Texas.

The 1930, 1931, 1932 and 50-F (likely 1933) Ithaca catalogues all list five GAH winners in 12 years with Ithacas -- Mose Newman (1929), Charles Young (1926), Elmer Starner (1925), John Henry (1918), and Charles Larson (1917). Four are shown with Ithaca SBTs and Mose Newman isn't shown with a gun. Ithaca Catalogue No. 51-F (likely 1934) adds A.E. Sheffield (1932) shown holding a Grade 5E SBT. The next Ithaca catalogue No. 54 (1935) adds L.G. Dana (1934) also shown holding a Grade 5E SBT. The 1938 Ithaca catalogue adds Frank G. Carroll (1937) shown holding a Victory Grade. The 1940 Ithaca catalogue adds D.L. Ritchie (1939) holding an SBT, and uses a different picture of Mose Newman, this time holding an SBT. No changes for the 1942 Ithaca catalogue, but by the 1947 Ithaca catalogue they added J.F. Holderman (1942) and Don Englebry (1945), again both holding SBTs. So, if anyone won at the GAH with a NID, Ithaca didn't capitalize on it and I'd sure think they would.

Yup, tell us the year or the name and we'll tell you whether the story is bogus or true.

The gun’s owner was Gus Olson of Mission Hill, SD. It would have been sometime in the 1930s. A friend of mine has the gun and is trying to find out what the story is..He showed me a newspaper article that said something about him winning the grand and having a silver plate that was engraved such.



The SN is 455736

Ross

Gun 455736 was shipped 9/29 to the Goetz Construction Co. There are many sub events at the Grand. Could he have won one of these perhaps?? All winners are posted on line btw. Sure would be helpful to find that article.
edit: I scanned the winners of all the events posted, no Gus Olson.

Gus had an .8872 average on 860 birds the first full year he had the gun.

Eightbore,
Did he win anything at the Grand? Where did you find info on him? I obviously wasnt looking in the right place. Thanks, Ross

His place of residence and annual averages can be found in the Interstate Association and American Trapshooting Association (later Amateur Trapshooting Association) annual average books. Some information about the Grand can be found in these same books and Jimmy Robinson's 3 books, which includes The Grand, 75 Years. Early trapshooting marks can be found in D.H.Eaton's book, Trapshooting, The Patriotic Sport. If you know the date of a particular shoot, you can often find results in Sportsmen's Review or, later, Trap and Field.

Here is the article. It says the trophies are engraved with his info and he won the Grand america handicap as well as some sub catagories. Strange

The writer of the article describes the GAH as a 16 yard event, which it is not. He must have won "some 16 yard event" at the GAH. He was an E Class shooter so it is unlikely he won any open event. The article describes a "team event" that he participated in. I don't know any research material where E Class or team members of an event in E Class would be identified. ATA is sometimes good about giving a history on an individual shooter if we ask nicely. Good luck.

The writer of the article describes the GAH as a 16 yard event, which it is not. He must have won "some 16 yard event" at the GAH. He was an E Class shooter so it is unlikely he won any open event. The article describes a "team event" that he participated in. I don't know any research material where E Class or team members of an event in E Class would be identified. ATA is sometimes good about giving a history on an individual shooter if we ask nicely. Good luck.

That article is kind of missleading saying "Olson won a silver plate for winning the Grand American Handicap, a 16 yard event." Making the local boy sound better then he really was. The GAH is by definition not a 16-yard event, and the last time it was won by someone from the 16-yard line was when B.F. Cheek won from that yardage in 1936.

He obviously won some lower class events or some such, but certainly not the Grand American Handicap or the Clay Target Championship. Any time that many shooters get together, somebody, no matter what their class, gets hot, and Gus seems to have gotten fairly warm to come away with four prizes. The 5E would still be a nice gun to have with the provenance.

A couple of guns, a Knick SBT, and a very early Superposed that had belonged to A.E. Sheffield who did win the GAH in 1932, were being offered for sale at the Las Vegas show. If I remember the offering correctly he won the GAH with the Ithaca and the new Browning was the prize.

OK, Ross, here it is. On Monday, August 18, 1930, Gus came in third in E Class in the "Class Championship 200 target event". On Tuesday, he came in first in E Class in the "Championship Day 200 target" event. On Wednesday, he came in first in E Class in the "Champion of Champions 200 target" event. On Friday, August 22, he did win a trophy in the "Grand American Handicap". He won the "Life Members Trophy" a 100 target event in which he won the 16 yard trophy. A trophy was given for each yardage group, 16 to 25. He probably only qualified to shoot in the "Champion of Champions" event by winning what was probably his first "Championship" the previous day. I can't read the whole article because it was copied off center, but I see mention of a team event which I didn't see in my material. Maybe that is a fifth honor that he received in addition to the four I found.

Dang Bill, you the man. Thanks

You're welcome, Ross. Can you repost the picture of the newspaper article so we can read the whole thing. It is a bit off center and the right side is cut off. Murphy

Reb,
Got lucky! I found a copy of the original invoice. It was actually shipped to Goetz on 4/7/30. Goetz was located in Yankton, SD. No mention of Olson, perhaps heowned the company or worked for them or had some association with the company as the invoice was in the Dealer's book. He paid $216.64 for the gun. Guys in the retail book were paying $258 for the same gun.