doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hello, need some help identifying this gun

Hi there.

Could you guys help me with identifying this old shotgun?.

Hi there.

I hope one of you guy's can help me to identify this shotgun.

Al I know of it, that it's most likely a pre WWII model "Liege" (although it is most likely a German weapon)hybrid shotgun that fires a combination of a 16 gauge shotgun shells and a 9,3x72R round.

Could somebody tell me who made this weapon and when it actually was made?

I have some pictures of it and the various proofings on it, I hope this helps.

Will try to get some better pictures this afternoon, as these where taken with bad lighting.

Greets

William

This is what I found out this far:

Weapon was proofed in Germany 7/1928

(The date of proofing is stamped in being 7/28)

The discription of the round being 8,8 MM for a 9,3 mm round is typicall for later in the 1905-39 period)

The weapon was proofed in Ulm or Suhl pre 1954 (the eagle proofing, (cant determine which eagle it is exactly)

It has a pre 39 german proof for an expres rifle barrel (The E)

It has a pre 39 German proof for inspection in a finished state (the U)


Hope you can tell me even more of it.

The 8.8 (.3465") would be the bore dia which was the way the proof house marked bbls during this period. 9.3 (.366") is groove or bullet dia, though I believe most 9.3x72R rounds actually used a .364" bullet. Is there a mark denoting the bullet used, my 9.3x72R bbl from a 1913 drilling is marked KMG/12.7gr IE copper jacketed bullet of 12.7 grams wt (196 grains). Lookung forward to the better pics, but appears a very nice gun.

William2:

The touchmarks are all German. And like 2-piper noted that the 8.8mm is a pre-rifling diameter. The "Crown over E" is a neat one as you don't see it all the time. There looks to be a "Crown over G" above the other touchmarks for rifled(Gezogen/Gezeugen). And you have the other marks note. The 9.3mm was a blackpowder round and there were several variations before it was normalized. It could be Expreb-Patron kal. 9,3 X 72R if that is a "72" stamp under the "8.8mm". Have you slugged the bore, made a chamber cast or inserted the 9,3X72R round? Also, the stamp of the tube maker Krupp is on the shotshell barrel. Last, the bore of the shotgun is 16 and probably 65mm chambers.

Your combination gun resembles a Merkel a bit that were made for Steigleder.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

It was my fathers old gun. He actually planned to "destroy" it (put lead up the barrel and weld the breach shut) so he could put it over his matlepiece legally.... When I heard about this, I almost had a fit and told him that I would take it over as it would be damn shame to destroy such a beautifull and well preserved weapon.

In order for me to have it leagally in Holland, I need to fire a certain amound of rounds on the firing range each month. This morning I found out that the rounds for this weapon are not exactly "CHEAP" I only have three rounds rounds left, my dad and I banged 10-15 of these old rounds away a dozen or so years ago. This morning I read that these rounds cost about 6 dollar EACH!!, Now I am wondering if it would be worthwhile to hold on to this gun or better sell it to somebody that that can appreciate it's beauty without having to spend a fortune on ammo in order to just being able to keep on to it legally...

I know from personall experience that the gun will chamber and fire the 9,3 MM round without a problem, although I do remember that the spend shellcasing had a tendency to stick a bit in the breech after being fired, although this could also have been caused by the shear age of these rounds......

They are OLD...

William2,

Welcome to the board. Hopefully you will stay and contribute when you can. I know at one time, Holland sold many guns to the US, although we don't see them very often today.

You have a very nice gun! Interesting that you actually have to use a gun by firing it to keep the license / permit current. There is no collector's permit for a gun?

Pete

Hi Will'
Would just shooting the Shotgun bbl only count to keep within the law???....
Don't know if you have many 16bore shells where you are though,hopefully cheaper than $6 a pop..just a though.
How many must you shoot?
Glad you got to it before your Dads torch...phew!!!!!!
Looks grand
cheers
Franc
Some nice shots of action & wood would(sounds like a Gunmaker
be nice

In order for me to get a collectors licence, I have to apply to the local goverment for the permit, comply with a lot of rules AND write a motivational letter with my aplication to argue WHY they even should CONSIDER giving me a collectors licence. In this letter I should discribe what my collection would add to the our culture/history. (I am not joking.)

Gun laws are VERY strict in Holland......

ok, problems with getting a hunting permit in Holland.

1 You need to get your hunting/shooting permit (not the biggest problem).
2 You need somebody to SIGN for you that you can actually hunt on the grounds where he has the hunting rights.

Main problem is that hunting is dying sport in Holland and I know NOBODY that has hunting rights anymore, let alone somebody that is willing to sign a paper for me every year in order for me to even keep my weapon.

I will take some more pictures of it this afternoon.