doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com "abeille" slider DARNE?

Nial,
I agree...it was Larry Brown who admittedly began this emotional fray...based on a misquote and his perception that he was "calling me out" for some reason...

Robert, you started with the above mistake, and you then get all huffy when I suggest you may have misremembered the spelling you've seen on some French guns. You see, your quote is in error. "Abielle" does not mean bee in French. It doesn't mean ANYTHING in French. "Abeille" is the French word for bee, and you don't even need to dig into someone's gun safe to check it. All you need is a French dictionary. Just as it's spelled on Beagle's gun, and on French guns I've seen.

But if you have a French gun marked "L'Abielle", please produce photographic evidence. Same standard you've demanded of others. And no, I DON'T know someone is lying when they say they have a few Belgian guns with Deeley latches--and neither do you. You're only assuming you know that, apparently because you think you know everything about Belgian guns. Were you ever in the military, Robert? If so, I can't believe some NCO didn't tell you what happens when you ASS-U-ME things.

But while I'm waiting for photographic evidence of your "L'Abielle", I won't call you a liar--although I will point out that the name certainly does not mean bee.

If, by "Plume" barrel, one means a swamped rib barrel, 1949 is WAY late in the ballgame for someone to try to take credit for that. Regis Darne had been using swamped ribs for well over 50 years by then, and I'm pretty sure other gunmakers had used the idea also by 1949. I've never seen anyone take credit for that invention, assuming it was a rib choice from way back in the day of French guns.

I have seen stainless steel Charlins (actually "Charlin", as in singular-the Bruchets have one, just the action, that was a display item at the Charlin company before it fell into Darne company hands, that is immersed in a large jar of water) and know that they patented, and built, raised, ventilated ribs for Charlin guns. Not their finest moment, but, the only rib patent I can find exclusive to Charlin.

I'd love to see the evidence of this particular A'bielle gun in photos. I am pretty certain that the guns I have seen had different spelling upon them.

A further point, not really worth anything, is that the photo you provided showing a Darne and a Charlin, Robert (thank you, by the way) is not really illustrating a Darne, per say-it is a clone, based on the early 1894 Regis Darne R model patent, and produced by Francisque Darne, Regis Darne's eldest son.
Note the rocker type safety, located in the base of the action, rather than in the sliding breech, as used by most Darne R model guns produced after 1909.

It's a fine point, but, one that must be understood, when involved in the study of Darne guns.
Best,
Ted

Ted,
When I refer to the plume barrels, I am referring to barrels with a top rib only...the front sling swivel goes between the barrels and is attached to the underside of the top rib...it was yet again another step in the French thinking that light and safe is sometimes valued above all other shooting qualities. Should I post the patent?

Plume barrels are a fine point, but, one that must be understood, when involved in the study of Darne guns.(do you see how pompous that sounds when I play it back for you?)... What kind of Darne student doesn't know what plume barrels are? Face it Ted, when it comes to French guns, we are all beginners.


Larry,
You have got to be kidding me...you started all this crap because you caught me mixing the I and E...well you got me...as for the accuracy of the info that I posted, what do you have to say? Is that the best you can roll out on your emotional tirade? That I misspelled, what is in this case is, a proper noun.

Yeah, you really showed me...but I disagree about your NCO nonsense...you made an ass out of yourself...you didn't need my help at all...but I was glad to be there for the assist

Sure, post the patent-I wonder how it was possible to patent something that had been in practical use for half a century previously.

Sling swivels attached to the upper rib, on a gun that didn't have a lower rib were not a new idea in 1949. A plume rib barrel, by definition, doesn't have a lower rib, which, I'm guessing you assume I didn't know. As a matter of fact, while one might assume a "band" barrel, which featured a raised rib was only available with an underrib, this was not the case-and, it was still called a "band" barrel, when built sans underrib, not "plume". So, what exactly is your point? Since you are good with the posting feature, go to the 1909, 1936, or 1948 Darne catalogs and post for us exactly how the Darne plume ribs equipped with sling swivels differ from the Charlin patent of 1949. Sling swivels, along with the retractable sling, and the bretelle Darne were all available options prior to 1949.

On a Darne gun without an underrib, a little ramp is soldered onto the bottom of the top rib, and a sling swivel is installed. Not sure how anything like that could be patented.

I'd love to see it, and know exactly what was being patented. Bad news is, we likely will need Larry to translate it, since, more than likely, it is in French, and the devil is in the details.

You know Robert, I thanked you for posting a decent picture, and simply pointed out that the photo posted was not a Darne. I've burned enough hours on the computer and the phone trying to get people to understand that one simply can't look at a sliding breech gun and call it a Darne, or buy parts for it, for example, just because it is a sliding breech gun, and it has the word Darne on it. The "pompous" comment was intended for general consumption, and not specifically aimed at anyone, and certainly not you. I thought I made it clear that I believe I have more to learn when I pointed out I hadn't seen that exact spelling, and would love to know more about the gun.

Sorry if you took offense.

Since I'm not up for a repeat of the post a while back that forced Dave to pull rank and order better manners to be displayed, or else, if Mr. Beagledogxxx has specific questions, and perhaps a photo or two, especially of the barrel flats, feel free to send them along to tedjs@usfamily.net.

I love to see them, and can likely make sense of the information on them for you.
Best,
Ted

Just to add to the pictorial of Darne guns:




JC

P.S.: Seriously doubt a picture of a French gun marked "L'Abielle" will be forthcoming.
Just a human mistake. jc

JC
you are correct...I won't be posting any pics of the gun...or anything esle for the consumption of wise guys like yourself and Larry Brown...all I did was mix the I and E...and for that you guys got ugly...I'll be paying close attention to your posts in the future as well...

So, no photo of the mysterious "L'Abielle" shotgun after all, Robert--of which you were so certain? You could've saved a whole bunch of bandwidth--and yourself a hearty meal of crow--if you'd simply admitted your mistake from the get-go.

I have no more time for you here either--but I will toss a few non-clunkers with Deeley latches your way over on the other thread.

Larry, or should I say Miss Manners,
Nobody wants to see your Deeley latches...they want to see your abeille...marked on a French double without the capitol L..

let's all see if you can back up your mouth with the same photographic evidence that you ask me to produce..

Here's my proof big mouth...now let's see yours..."Apply the same standards of "proof" to yourself, Robert, that you apply to everyone else, and you'll have no problem with me."
now let's apply those standards to yourself...

If I ever see you trying to teach some other member "a lesson" I promise to sling more mud than you are prepared for..

Who appointed you Miss Manners anyway? You must first learn to keep your own bad manners in check before you go around appointing yourself the assistant principal. You can't teach what you don't know..

I'll bet that you can't back your word with the hard evidence...You may want to reconsider your field of expertise...it's certainly not French or Belgian guns...maybe a book on French makers will help you get up to speed, maybe a book on manners as well

The photo I posted above proves that Larry is just a big windbag...I don't need to see his Deeley latches to know that I've probably forgotten more about French and Belgian shotguns than he knows...when he doesn't know the answer, he simply cooks one up...I read his posts before...

I don't care if you taught French to the CIA...I too graduated from Ft. Huachuca....and I know that even when your on the inside, your nobody...and when your out, your a bigger nobody

NEWS FLASH...there is no pecking order Larry, do everyone a favor and stop trying to maintain it...it cloud the issues being discussed and you've disrupted this thread beyond academic pursuit...