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#68796 - 11/29/07 05:43 PM Re: "abeille" slider DARNE? [Re: Ted Schefelbein]
JayCee Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 3572
Ted, are my instructions to remove the barrels even modestly accurate?

JC
_________________________
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance."¯ Charles Darwin

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#68797 - 11/29/07 05:48 PM Re: "abeille" slider DARNE? [Re: JayCee]
Ted Schefelbein Offline
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Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 4248
Loc: mpls, mn.
JC,
Depends. Mostly, on what type of copy he may have. The Bruchets knew nothing of this maker when I was in France, and, it is possible that we have something different than the usual suspect here-Charlin made a sliding breech O/U, which, the instructions for dismantling are, of course, different than a typical Charlin. Few of us will ever see a Charlin O/U, but, they are out there. Which leads us right back to, what exactly does he have?
Best,
Ted


Edited by Ted Schefelbein (11/29/07 05:49 PM)
_________________________
Hmm. Looks like Ted Cruz was right.

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#68825 - 11/29/07 07:04 PM Re: "abeille" slider DARNE? [Re: Ted Schefelbein]
Robert Chambers Offline
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Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 1080
Ted,
I was only guessing Charlin as L'Abielle was a high end gun supplier...how do you know Beag's gun has a toggle driven locking rib extension(?) making it a Darne?

Also,...I double and triple checked the spelling for A Bayle...Alexandre Bayle is the correct spelling.

just took a quick look...Bayle too had a wedge driven locking rib extension as early as 1930...but it's very interesting how you've drawn some advanced dividing lines...I had just assumed that all the rib extensions were locking.

I've only known 3 Darnes and a Charlin over the years and not all at once so that I could compare them....so the bulk of what know is from photos, 4 sale listings, patents, and catalogs...then I have to try and recall what I've learned when I stumble into an overpriced one at the gunshow...It's not a good system, I know


Edited by Robert Chambers (11/29/07 07:52 PM)

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#68876 - 11/29/07 10:05 PM Re: "abeille" slider DARNE? [Re: Robert Chambers]
Ted Schefelbein Offline
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Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 4248
Loc: mpls, mn.
Robert,
Only an educated guess based on the guns I have handled, and a few facts gleened while I was last in France, not a totally reliable system either, but, those are the guns I have seen.

The guns I have seen were beyond "close", they were perfect copies of Regis Darne 1894 patent R models. Very good copies, with excellent engraving, finishing and wood.

If we get to see a picture, I'll know more, or, maybe not. Quite a few twists in the road on Darne copies.

For what it is worth, I've never seen, handled, or viewed a photo of a Charlin sliding breech gun copy. The over-the-center device that is the basis for a Charlin (remember, the breech is NOT locked to the barrels in any way in a Charlin) is quite a machining work of art. Further, since the Charlin was produced by the Darne company from 1955 until 1965, after the Charlin company went bankrupt, any Charlin based copies would be well known by Paul Bruchet, since he was employed by Darne at the time. Like I said, he had never heard of the A Bayle. There exist Darne R patent guns that are marked Charlin, I'm not sure of the history of these, but, I smell a rat in the Darne ownership/production of that name for a decade.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...
Best,
Ted
_________________________
Hmm. Looks like Ted Cruz was right.

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#68884 - 11/29/07 10:38 PM Re: "abeille" slider DARNE? [Re: Ted Schefelbein]
Robert Chambers Offline
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Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 1080
I find Louis Charlin from at least 1904 (in business with famous maker Jean Santiot) to 1963 (Charlin the company) a completely separate company as Darne....also it seems that Charlin, the company, invented the plume barrel in 1949.....

Alexandre Bayle made sliding breech shotguns between the wars, that to my untrained eye, look more like a Charlin than a Darne.

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#68890 - 11/30/07 12:59 AM Re: "abeille" slider DARNE? [Re: Ted Schefelbein]
beagledogxxx Offline
Boxlock
*****

Registered: 08/26/07
Posts: 17
Loc: western PA
Ted and others, thank you for your replies. I certainly don't want to jeopordize the gun in any way...I only wanted to know more about it and, if it is worth while, which I must say it seems to be by the response, to replace the stock. In order to give a little more info to the experts on such matters, getting a look at the bottom of the barrels seems critical. I just don't see how I can separate them from the stock as there appears to be a threaded stud which comes down through the forestock from under the barrels, on which there appears to be a nut that I am clueless as to how to remove. Perhaps the stud is from an ill attemped sling installation, but the barrels already have one so that doesn't seem probable. I will however try the way suggested by jaycee and see what happens. I will keep you posted and again, thanks for your interest.

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#68915 - 11/30/07 07:32 AM Re: "abeille" slider DARNE? [Re: Ted Schefelbein]
L. Brown Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 01/01/02
Posts: 7521
Loc: Iowa
Robert, you may have Bayle correct, but the poster was right on his spelling of "Abeille"--which, as someone above indicated, means "Bee" in French.

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#68922 - 11/30/07 07:55 AM Re: "abeille" slider DARNE? [Re: beagledogxxx]
beagledogxxx Offline
Boxlock
*****

Registered: 08/26/07
Posts: 17
Loc: western PA
Great description, jaycee...I got the barrels off and I again apologize for the lack of pics. First off, the serial numbers match. Each barrel has a small insignia...looks like two crossed branches or antlers with a crown in the middle and little plus + signs on each side? Looking down on the barrel, they appear sideways and then from between the branches opposite the crown, it says, I believe, STETIENNE. The first letter is definitely S and the ENNE at the end is correct also. The stuff in the middle is a little shady. Stamped to the right of these, on each barrel, is 18.2. Then, stamped off the barrels, on the flat surface is 65, top and bottom. To the right of these are two more crown like things, but different from the first ones. These look more like 3 Ys standing on a curved line...they are immediately followed by PI. There is one more stamp on the bottom barrel only, down in the valley, that says S.R?ss maybe? Not sure at all about the letter I've indicated with the question mark...a little shady as well. These are all within an oval. Finally, on the flat part, right in the middle and meant to be read with the barrels perpendicular, sight down, it says CHOKE...the second word starts with R and appears to be about 7 letters long and end with an E. These two words are arched, from left to right, and then under them, stamped straight, not arched, is COT and then a few more letters. The stamp is weak on the right side and the letters are faint. I realize that this is as poor a description as you may have ever heard, but without a functioning camera, Its the best I can do. Thanks, Dave

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#68931 - 11/30/07 08:33 AM Re: "abeille" slider DARNE? [Re: beagledogxxx]
Robert Chambers Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 1080
Beag,
What does it say on the top of the operating key (toggle)?

Larry.
The word abielle does in fact mean bee...but the guns sold on Rue Turbigo in Paris are marked "L'Abielle"...and they proudly marked them with a Paris street address similar to London made guns ....Beag never mentioned a street address so perhaps this is something different...maybe Beag can look and tell us exactly




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#68952 - 11/30/07 09:41 AM Re: "abeille" slider DARNE? [Re: Robert Chambers]
beagledogxxx Offline
Boxlock
*****

Registered: 08/26/07
Posts: 17
Loc: western PA
Robert, it just says "abeille". Just like that, with the quotation marks.

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