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#6841 - 06/23/05 10:54 PM Strength of Greener/Martini action
Tom Hall Offline
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Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
I have a couple of Greener Martini shotgun actions (they were originally the 14ga police guns).
Does anyone know the strength of these actions?
I have seen some info regarding the other Martinis but never that model.
Maybe some help from Oz?

Thanks

Tom
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#6842 - 06/24/05 05:37 AM Re: Strength of Greener/Martini action
Marrakai Offline
Member
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Registered: 11/29/02
Posts: 522
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Tom:
Can't help with actual strength data, but generally the Martini action is stronger than needed for all the usual chamberings. The GP-type shotgun action is relieved quite a bit behind the main pin (above the wrist), probably to save weight, so for high-pressure cartridges, or big cases with lots of back-thrust, the Martini-Henry or Martini-Enfield rifle actions are to be preferred. I believe they have the same or similar breech width, and action side-wall thickness, but will measure a couple when next I have time. Fine examples of the Martini-Henry, Martini-Enfield, Martini Cadet, and Greener GP reside in my gunsafe.

In Britain almost a century ago, Martini-Enfield rifles were routinely rechambered for the .375 Flanged Magnum, probably the largest practical cartridge for a sporting rifle on that action.
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Marrakai
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~orrs/Marrakai

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#6843 - 06/26/05 06:39 AM Re: Strength of Greener/Martini action
Tom Hall Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Thank you Marrakai.

I rechambered that last one I bought for 12ga which really wasn't much different from the original chambering.
This one is going to become a rifled 20ga. My last loading in my NEF had a 510gr slug on top of 100gr of 777, but I would like to see where I can go with smokeless within the limitations of the action.
With the size of the rim, I also thought about cutting an extra barrel for something using the .577 range of cases (as long as it would fit past the block.)
I read the Greener book regarding the later actions with the hardened breechblock for higher pressure calibers.
Would that be the Martini Enfield?
He mentioned that the untreated actions would be ruined if subjected to high pressure loads.

Cheers

Tom
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Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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#6844 - 06/27/05 10:09 AM Re: Strength of Greener/Martini action
Paul T. Bradshaw Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 194
Loc: Warrington, PA
What would you think about setting one up in something like the .405 Winchester or the .375 Flanged? I've seen an interesting one on one of the guns for sale sites. It's currently barreled for .30-06 (using cast bullet loads only, according to the current owner), but there's plenty of barrel for a rebore to something rimmed and in the 40,000 psi range. (Plenty of weight, too, to absorb recoil.) Would this be too much cartridge for the old action? If so, I'm sure something like a .450 Rigby or one of the larger American black powder rounds would be a possibility as well.

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#6845 - 06/27/05 01:49 PM Re: Strength of Greener/Martini action
Tom Hall Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Paul,
There is a limit to the length of the cartridge that will fit into the action due to the manner in which the block opens.
I don't know exactly what that length is, but as far as a know it is one of the reasons that the 45 cal martini round is bottlenecked.
I have seem them chambered for 45-70 but I don't know if the longer 45's will fit.
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Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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#6846 - 06/28/05 07:25 AM Re: Strength of Greener/Martini action
Franc Otte Offline
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Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 2970
Loc: NH
Hi Tom, back when I got my Greener Hammergun, I enquired about it & had a brief but pleasant flurry of E mails to/from Graham Greener.I had the same idea with the Greener Martini(converting to a rifle cal'], & asked him what he thought..he seemed very much against the idea due to pressure issues,& warned that such a gun should be sent for Proofing,also to remove the Greener name from the Gun.
But I didn't run the smaller bore rifled shotgun slug bbl by him, which would seem to run much more similar pressures to the original gun than a rifle cal' conversion.This idea seems more reasonable/safe.
He was pissed at a certain Australian site that had a pair of Greener "Presentation" Martini rifles,that he said were bsaically just tarted up shotgun converts, unsafe & mis represented as to grade.
Not much help Tom, just thought I'd throw it up here.
You could always E him, perhaps he'd view your idea differently...but perhaps he just doesn't like people messing with his Great Grandaddys Guns
I must say he was a super patient & helpfull Gent' to a total stranger.....me.
Good luck Tom
Franc

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#6847 - 06/29/05 10:28 PM Re: Strength of Greener/Martini action
Tom Hall Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Thanks Franc.

I just may ask you for that address, but be sure that I will don my slightly thicker skin first :rolleyes:
I am really pretty realistic about what I should be able to do with it. If this works out as I hope that it will, the next step is a double, although a Ruger #1 would make a wonderful bore rifle as well
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Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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#6848 - 07/01/05 11:35 AM Re: Strength of Greener/Martini action
Paul T. Bradshaw Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/02
Posts: 194
Loc: Warrington, PA
Franc:

Is there a way to tell from a photo whether the Greener Martini gun in question started life as a rifle or a shotgun? The one I'm looking at is on Gunbroker, at http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=34162761

I was curious about how to tell.

Thanks.

Paul

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#6849 - 07/02/05 05:09 AM Re: Strength of Greener/Martini action
Marrakai Offline
Member
*****

Registered: 11/29/02
Posts: 522
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Paul:
Reckon that one was a GP shotgun. Compare the top-rear profile of the action with this Martini-Enfield: there's a lot more 'meat' behind the action-block!

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Marrakai
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~orrs/Marrakai

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#6850 - 07/02/05 08:19 AM Re: Strength of Greener/Martini action
Tom Hall Offline
Sidelock
*

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
How many different Martinis were there with safetys?
Most, including commercial, that I have seen just didn't have them.
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