doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGuns For Sale @ doublegunshop.com for you lc smith guys

check this out...

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-gauge.cfm?gun_id=102484182&cdn_bp=1

pm offers, as you wish...

Nice looking 20 ga 2E Ed, the only problem I see is that this gun was made between 1908-1912, 20 gauge guns did not have 2 3/4" chambers until the mid 1930"s.

think of it this way, you don't have to find a smith to lengthen the chambers, so you can shoot readily available ammo...

Well Ed I look at that as the integrity of the gun is ruined.

😂😂😂😂

well dave, you are certainly entitled to your negative asumptions...

but i would appreciate it, if you do not express them here...

it just awakens the vermin, who come ah runnin at the first indication of conflict...

So, ed, what are the barrel thicknesses ahead of these bubbaed chambers? Are you sure they are 90 each, all the way around?

see watt ah mean...

David, how can you say with certainty that the integrity of Ed's gun is ruined? Quite a few vintage doubles have had their chambers lengthened, apparently without ruining their integrity. I certainly can't tell from here, so I can't say. I don't even know if the chambers are actually 2 3/4", because a lot of guys seem to have trouble accurately measuring the length of chambers.

A few years ago, the Preacher was insisting that lengthening the chambers of our vintage doubles could actually increase the barrel wall thickness at the end of the re-cut chambers. That would increase integrity, wouldn't it? I wonder why you and the Nutty Professor didn't confront him about that? Do you think he was correct that removing metal ahead of a chamber would increase wall thickness in that region?

Then there was the Preachers long drawn out analysis of an L.C. Smith that burst in the chamber area.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=546106&page=all

The chambers were factory length, unaltered, but the gun blew up anyway. It appeared in the pictures that there was a fairly large inclusion under the burst chamber near the hole for the extractor, which left the barrel weak in that area. Dewey Vicknair reached the same conclusion about the void in the steel as a result of the inclusion. There was also a defective braze joint that was apparently done at the factory. So with these factory flaws, would you also conclude that all L.C. Smith were built with similar "ruined integrity"? Are you warning people here and on the L.C. Smith forum that all L.C. Smith's may have factory defects and "ruined integrity"?

Final question: Are you interested in buying this gun, or are you just here to disrupt a sale, which is the obvious motive of the Nutty Professor? I find it amusing that a guy like the Nutty Professor, who blew up a low-numbered Springfield and misled us about his own ineptitude being the actual cause, is pretending to be so interested in only the guns that Ed attempts to sell here.

I would think Keith that this gun being 7500 bucks would be enough for a lot of questions it is also refinished, was any barrel honing involved? We're the chambers pitted what is the wall thickness would be a valid question since it is refinished

lengthening the chambers of our vintage doubles could actually increase the barrel wall thickness?

Am I misunderstanding something here? Isn't barrel wall thickness simply stated "the barrel thickness" or "the measure from the inside wall of the tube to the outside wall of the tube? How can steel be added to a barrel? Isn't it kind of like a hair cut? You can cut hair away but the barber can't put it back on once its cut away?

gee keith, your eloquence and direct path to common sense restores my confidence that some members of this fine forum still wish to engage in positive dialog...

regarding this fine and rare 20 gauge lc smith, grade 2 ejector gun, with straight grip...

it was consigned to me for sale by an avid woodcock hunter, who fortunately lives in an area where he and his doggies can hunt woodcock most of the year...course, he only shoots when legal to do so....he had this lovey little smith refurbished by a highly respected gunsmith located in his region of the country...

he is now shooting an a grade fox of similar configuration...it too, has had its chambers lengthened...

we must remember, that there are some small minds here, who are also of a jealous nature...

fire, one would think so...

Mark, if you or the Nutty Professor actually had any interest whatsoever in buying this gun, I wouldn't say a damn thing about your questions. But it has become apparent that some here are merely Trolling and doing all they can to disrupt pretty much all of Ed's gun sales here... and also subsequently prevent Dave Weber from getting his $12.00 fee for a sale.

We just very recently went though this same disingenuous horse shit where the Nutty Professor essentially admitted he would never buy a gun from Ed. And Ed explained why he would never answer questions from an obvious Troll who was lying about being interested. Here Mark, go back and read it again:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=631379&page=5

Now then Mark, will we be seeing you confront the Nutty Professor about pretending to be an interested buyer, and then stupidly letting the truth out only a couple days later?

The Free Advertising Gunsmith, who is now also advertising African Hunts in his/her tagline, also sometimes sells some rather expensive guns here that have also obviously been refinished. But strangely, we don't see the same Trolls repeatedly attempting to disrupt his/her sales. Nor questioning him/her about pitted chambers, wall thickness, honing, or a lack of integrity. (That's barrel integrity... not the lack of integrity involved in advertising in ones' tagline and not paying Dave $12.00 for each of the resulting sales... and even bragging about screwing him)

If Ed did those exact same things... or jOe... or someone else you all didn't like, then you all would be howling and crying about them breaking the rules. It's insulting that any of the Trolls think we can't see the hypocrisy. So please stop trying to bullshit me.


Yes FireFly, you are correct. But a few years ago, the Preacher actually argued with me and Miller, a sadly deceased member who was also a Machinist, that lengthening the chambers of our vintage doubles could actually INCREASE the wall thickness at the end of the recut chambers. The argument went on for several days, and Miller, the machinist, even posted mechanical drawings to illustrate why that was impossible. It took a while, but I think logic and reason finally prevailed. It did serve to show that you should not just blindly accept everything you read on the internet, even if the person posting it acts like an expert.

I have asked those questions of gun sellers .I was responding to you , asking reasonable questions on an open forum....

Keith. The person you are referring to has a no bullshit return poilcy

You never even call me by my name......

Nothing strange about it billie. I have run my business with integrity for two decades.

If you require information about a gun I have for sale, all you need to do is ask. I have a 5 day(more if you need it) shooting encouraged return policy.

No double speak on the guns I sell, just honest descriptions and fair prices.

Glad to see you noticed the quality of my inventory. I have an incredible shipment on the way from New Zealand, almost all spoken for already.

By the way, I have been meaning to thank you for your input regarding the work I do. I stopped taking in repair years ago and pretty much do only custom work and restorations these days after you pointed out how much repair use to come through my shop. Great advise and I appreciate your heart felt input.

All my best.

Steve

Keith, when I referred to integrity, anyone that would want this gun as a collector gun would not want the chambers lengthened. I know I wouldn't at that price. As an original 2E with the last style of engraving and straight stock it would bring close to that at auction, but in my opinion not with the chambers lengthened and refinished.

gee Dave, guess you dent git hit the first time...

if you ain't got nuttin positive to say here...

den shut the fuc* up...

please...

You are getting nasty now! Obviously something to hide in that overpriced Bubba Special. Gee Ed, tell us how you measured those barrel walls to be sure they met your 90/30 rule.

But you can't, because you didn't. But you will be back to jump on someone else's gun listing.

I find it strange you think you are so special that your own rules don't apply to you.

What goes around, comes around, so enjoy.

an a reminder from the god dave...

"Note: If you are not interested in buying the advertised firearm and have never owed it. Don't post extraneous garbage under the listings keep your thoughts off the board."

Since when did you ever pay attention to that, ed? When?

Maybe you should keep YOUR thoughts off the board. And your junk guns. You never sell them anyway. Still got the .410? Too bad, but I really was interested in a .410.

an Keith, it is such a pleasure to read your writings...

your eloquence and style are extra ordinary...

only, if I could achieve your level of literary perfection...

then I could refrain from my weak resort to the florida kracker/ny street dialectic that I love so much to express here...

youse no watt I'm sayin here...

anyway, this goes back about 50 years or so ago...so i will try to remember it as best i can...but pls dont fault me, if i dont get every little detail right...

it was early in the morning of a cool summer day, which means it was most likely late in august...me an ma was settled in an snoozin away, when all of a sudden...

ah hears this sound, that makes me think that ma might be catchin ah cold due to the cool weather an such...

but then ah realize that the snorin sound was comin from the outside, in the big oak in the back yard...

so ah throws open the sash...

and what to my wonder do i see, but...

the biggest damned owl ever...

ah mean like damn near three feet long, jes sittin there, with its fedders awl puffed up an awl...

well, now even ah knows that owls are vicious grouse killers that can wipe out ah whole flock of erm in a single night...

yah see...grouse like to roost in conifers...for you boys in se jawja, thems pine trees...

anyways, so what some times happens, is an owl swoops in silent like an grabs ah sleepin bird, wid out disturbin the udders, an flys off silent, an then proceeds to eat just the brain, droppin the rest of the bird to the ground...

and then the murderin so an so, swoops in silent like an grabs anudder sleepin bird an so on, an so on, until hes killed every damn one of erm...

once, when out bird huntin one frosty mornin in se ny state, i came upon ah scene of absolute horror...

there, scattered around a big norway spruce, were seven dead grouse...

all undisturbed, cept they were all dead an all missin their heads...

owls are sometimes called silent death for good reason...

so bein the good citizen an conservationist that i am, ah quickly reached under the bed an retrieved my trusty ithaca 37, equipped with poychoke and drew ah bead on that murderin so an so...

an jes before i pulled the trigger...

hit looks me in the eye an mudders...

buenos dias, senor...

well, ah swan...

ah aint neva heared no bird, cept mebbe ah crow or ah parrot talk like that...

need less to say...

but ah will say hit any hows...

ah was takin ah back...

an then bout this time ma wakes up an ax...

who you talkin to out the winder?...

so, what am i gonna say?..

so i tells the truth...

hit aint nobody, ah says to ma, jest sum damn owl tellin me to have ah nice day...

wid that she shakes her head an rolls over an goes back to sleep...

so, ah casually peeks out the winder agin...

an yep, you guessed hit...

hit was still there, big as brass...

an this time hit looks me straight into my eyes, like nuttin ah ever seen before...

an ah swear, hit was smilin...

course, you probaby askin, how can an owl smile?

well, ah dont rightly know needer...

nor do ah wanna know cause that aint the point o this story...

which i am yet to fully decide on any how...

to be continyaed...

Buyer beware...

gee battle...two can play that game...

an heres my feedback...

https://www.gunbroker.com/a/feedback/profile/128526

wares yos...in duh turlet ah suspec...

Tarted up modified barrel steel removed from the breach refinished lc smith buyer beware

Glad I could help Stevie. However, you are lying when you say that I pointed out how much repair work used to come through your shop. Please show us where I ever said that. Just another demonstration of your lack of integrity. What I said was that you "farm out" or sub-contract repairs to real gunsmiths who do the actual work. Then you neglect to give credit to the real craftsmen who did the work. You admitted that you do that. So I said smart shooters would do better to eliminate the middle-man/woman, and just send their work directly to real gunsmiths.

And you are quite mistaken about running your business with integrity when you knowingly and proudly continue to do Free Advertising of your business ventures in your Tagline, and neglect to pay Dave Weber $12.00 for each and every successful sale resulting from your ads. You even went so far as to brag about the number of firearm importing jobs on which you've screwed Dave. And we know this to be true because we have seen other members here acknowledge using that service. It would be nice if they at least had the integrity to pay Dave, since it looks like you never intend to follow the rules about paying him $12.00 for sales made by advertising on his forum.

Now here's a PM you sent me yesterday at 12:12 PM STEVIE. Too bad you didn't have the balls to post these words here, or to send this message to Dave Weber to let him know that you don't give a shit about his feelings on guys (and non-binary gals) doing free advertising of their business ventures without compensating him. He is going to see them now! I'm posting the exact unedited words you PM'd to me so everyone can see your claims of integrity are as phony as you and the people who "liked" them:


What a joke, telling us you run your business with integrity. Phony as a three dollar bill. Just my opinions, as always. All my best you fraud.

Gee Mark, this following post which you made yesterday, doesn't sound like a reasonable person asking reasonable questions on an open forum. It sounds like more of the same attempts that you, and others who have the goal of driving Ed away and disrupting his sales here, have been doing for a long time:


There were some concerns about Ed's return policy several years ago. And the guys who simply hate him were successful in convincing Dave to pull his advertisements. However, since then, Dave is apparently satisfied with Ed's policies. And he is apparently aware that Ed is more than willing to pay him the $12.00 fee for a successful sale... unlike a couple Free Advertising Gunsmiths who want everyone to believe that they have integrity.

So who are you to question Ed's return policies, and to subsequently prevent a sale that would result in Dave getting paid? Are you a Moderator or Site Administrator who has the right to determine who may post guns for sale here? How many guns have you personally bought from Ed, and how many did he refuse a return on for good cause? Is Ed boasting or sending you PM's about doing Free Advertising in his Tagline like the seller of refinished guns you defended yesterday?

There are people here who would just stand there and allow you to piss on their leg, and tell them it's raining. I'm not one of them.


David, perhaps you used a poor choice of words when you commented that Ed's gun has "ruined integrity", instead of saying that chamber lengthening might negatively affect collector value. Better you would have said nothing at all since you are not an interested buyer. Personally, I also prefer vintage doubles that are in original condition. However, we know that many guys are willing to pay a premium for a nice shiny refinished gun with opened chokes, and chambers that handle easily available ammo. Some guys even pay many times what a gun is worth to Turnbulls, Bachelders, Kearcher, etc., to have their guns refinished... often with period incorrect finishes. And they do this knowing they may never recoup their cost. It also appears that Ed's selling price is mainly in the hands of the guy who consigned it to him. Ed's profit will be a small percentage of the sales price, and he will pay Dave $12.00 out of his profit.... because he actually does have that sort of integrity. Guys who think the price is too high should PM Ed to see if the consigner will accept less. That's what Ed did recently when he tried to buy a gun from battle. I see a lot of guns here from other sellers that have asking prices much higher than I consider realistic. I never have dumped on their Threads because of that.

So from this point on, I expect that we will be seeing you make similar comments about "ruined integrity" whenever you see someone else selling any gun in refinished condition, or with altered chambers, chokes, etc. That would convince me that you are sincere, and weren't just targeting Ed, knowing your comments would have a negative effect upon his attempt to sell his gun. Until then, the same thought about pissing on our legs applies.

And finally, it seems that the Nutty Professor wishes to affirm once again that he was lying when he recently claimed to be interested in buying a gun from Ed. Not only that, but he seems to think he not only has the right to run a One-Turd Whining Crybaby" campaign to defund this site, but that he also has the right to decide who has the right to post For Sale advertisements here:


If Ed or jOe did this crap, several phony hypocrites here would be screaming to Dave to have them banned and censored. Many of them would be doing their crying to Dave in PM's or emails. They don't have the stones or honesty to admit that their fraudulent complaints are simply a cover excuse they use to silence and drive away their enemies. I'd also advise Ed to not take the bait by responding to battle and others in kind, because they will then try to have him banned by crying in unison to Dave. If the Nutty Professor did this Trolling and defunding campaign over on Upland Journal Forum, Brad Eden would bounce him in a heartbeat. This place really needs more Moderation... and psychological help for pathological frauds and liars too.

I'm still thinking you are slowing down old boy, usually you are having a cow over any changes I make to my tagline within hours. You will need to continue on with your rant without me. All my best Billie.

Steve

once again keith, your elequence and quest for truth here, is as always far beyond my poor quality to add or detract...

i am but a humble, identified, hobby gun dealer, who gets along as best i can in the ever growing competitive harshness, that is quite evident here, on this once fine forum...where gentlemen, proud of their names and reputations, used to discuss the aspects of a favorite hobby...classic sxs shotguns...

and yes, a trade of product for money would happen here from time to time...without the jealous, nameless, mal contents, ( aka mc's), who seem to delight in expressing their negative two cents...to what purpose, i know not...

an steve...why you trashin my sales thread here...

if you wanna fight with keith or tell how wonderful you are, then by awl means, have at hit...

but, please don do hit here...

some might consider your he havior here rude an ungentlemanly like...

by the way, you still got dat fony pony tale?

ed, careful you might dehydrate crying all those crocodile tears.

Got that clapped out clunker dumped on some poor sucker yet?

Keith Keith Keith ,if edd followed his own rules and comments were backed by fact that would be one thing.edd has disrupted more sale adds then just about anyone with his buyer beware watch out for light imported guns having barrels with crap wall thickness his 30/90 rule that he won't post on his gun sales,he made the comment on a 20 bore that was 5.5 pounds was to light and buyer beware ,did edd know the facts of the gun was it in proof ,barrel wall thickness, original chamber length? Nope just buyer beware just trying to shut down competition.good luck backing edd .and you shouldn't let Steve live rent free in your head

Mark, Mark, Mark, You are sadly very wrong. Ed only made one negative comment in the For Sale forum concerning a "buyer beware" warning about a "light imported gun having barrels with crap wall thickness" which may have violated his 30/90 or 90/30 rule. And that was about the Tolley 20 ga. that battle sold recently. Were you paying attention when I reminded you and the others who were carrying out your vendetta to punish Ed for his "buyer beware" comment that while technically wrong, maybe it was justified?

I said that it didn't take much searching to find multiple posts made by battle that disparaged Ed and the guns he sells. I quoted Shakespeare by saying maybe we should consider that "past is prologue". That means that perhaps battle brought on Ed's single "buyer beware" comment as a result of him repeatedly bashing Ed. I'll make it real simple for you. Maybe battle's insults came back to bite him in the ass, and maybe he deserved it. And maybe he should stop playing the victim when he started things by insulting Ed numerous times in the past.

I have also pointed out that I am not backing Ed or defending him. Ed does a pretty good job of defending himself, even when he is being gang tackled by a bunch of hypocrites who would cry like babies if he and jOe did the exact same thing that you are doing, along with the Nutty Professor and the other phonies. It really pains me to say that to you, because I agree with you on most other things, especially our Gun Rights.

Have you seen Ed's comments in some recent For Sale ads posted by battle? Ed is being the bigger man by merely posting "nice gun", and bringing his ads to the top.

I also don't have Stevie the Free Advertising Gunsmith living rent free in my head. Is Ed living rent free in your head, or do you simply dislike him? I merely pointed out that you obviously weren't being honest about your motivation for making rude comments about refinished or otherwise altered guns when you don't do the same thing when Stevie advertises refinished guns here. And it wasn't me who sent Stevie a PM to brag about adding even more Free Advertising to my Tagline while publicly posting about integrity... all while knowingly screwing Dave out of quite a few $12.00 fees for sales made as a result.

Unlike you guys who act all innocent and pretend to be interested in Ed's guns just so you can keep on trying to disrupt his sales, I can admit that I jab Stevie about his/her Free Advertising because I don't like him/her. Give me an hour or two and I can give you many good reasons. But here are Stevie's own words from last year in reply to me pointing out his/her Free Advertising without paying Dave his $48.00 due for 4 guns imported for board members:


I can also show you the posts from the 4 board members who paid Stevie big money to import those 4 guns. It was Stevie who bragged that he/she imported "way more... by several fold"

Is that integrity Mark? Is that the sort of behavior you wish to defend here, and make excuses for? Stevie shot himself/herself in the foot by sending me that PM, which Dave and everyone else who reads this is now aware of. Bragging about integrity while sending unsolicited PM's to goad me about screwing Dave is about as low and stupid as you can get.

"Hoist by his (or her) own Petard". That's another line from Shakespeare. It means being blown up by your own bomb or mortar. Isn't it great to be able to come to Doublegunshop forums to see lessons from Shakespeare are still relevant in 2023 Mark?

Keith, I only pointed out to ed if he didn't know that 20 gauge L.C. Smith's of that vintage did not have 2 3/4" chambers. No matter what I or anyone else says, if someone wants that gun then they will contact ed and make a deal. I didn't bad mouth about the gun which I later stated was a nice gun with a straight stock which had to be special ordered. I never once said anything about ed or anyone else's guns, the only guns I know about are L.C. Smith's. And yes the rules do state that unless inquiring about the gun you should not make negative comments about it, so sorry for that.

Mark, Mark, Mark, You are sadly very wrong. Ed only made one negative comment in the For Sale forum concerning a "buyer beware" warning about a "light imported gun having barrels with crap wall thickness" which may have violated his 30/90 or 90/30 rule. And that was about the Tolley 20 ga. that battle sold recently. Were you paying attention when I reminded you and the others who were carrying out your vendetta to punish Ed for his "buyer beware" comment that while technically wrong, maybe it was justified?

Mr. Keith...

"crap wall thickness" ???

Wall thickness was provided to Mr. Ed as quoted...

Minimum walls are (R) .33 - (L) .34

Now Ed, are you a serious buyer? If those numbers don't check out send it back for full refund offered to anyone here.

So to you those are crap wall thickness measurements? And please if you respond, just give us the CLIFF NOTES version of your reply.

ah never said nuttin bout no crap wall thicknesses...dat ah recall...

an ah only issued "buyer beware" warning when un named, un known seller here was evasive when asked multipe times about barrel wall thicknesses...

info was finally provided, after much to do an pontification...

an yall beatin ah dead hoss here...

cause battle an ah decided to make peace by ignoring each others threads an posts......

but, ah really like that little 20 bore a&n gon he got fur sale here...

ah did send ah pm expressing interest, but got no reply...

which is ok by me...

Yes Ed my previous post was directed at Keith. He stated the barrels were "crap wall thickness".

Uh, no battle...

Put your reading glasses on and go back to see that I was merely quoting mc, who used the term "crap wall thickness". I repeated Mark's words when I was addressing some incorrect assertions he made to try justifying the repeated gang trolling and dumping on Ed's For Sale ads.

To this day, all I know is that you gave minimum wall thickness numbers for that now sold 20 gauge Tolley, which could be very good, or very bad, depending upon where they are. Even if I had been an interested buyer, I would never have dumped on your ad or sale. It's a moot point now anyway. Nice to hear you and Ed have called a truce. But I predict that Ed will still have problems with some others that won't stop until Dave steps on them.

the god Dave ain't steppin on no body mis behaven here...

he ain't bout to get sh*t on his new Nye Keys...

Keith... I stand corrected. I did miss read Mark's and your post. I'm going to exit this thread now.

Wow Keith this must be a simm I have Hamlet on the table next to the couch or your psychic

down to six grand...

plus 600 for me...

And the wall thickness at the end of the end of the chambers is what?

mark, pls do pm...

so we can discuss your wall thickness requirements...

My apologies to ed for adding to this thread, to which I did not choose to participate.
If FireFly is still following, the original thread that Keith referenced was deleted by Dave. This is a follow-up in which I said I was mistaken, and, in the interest of science proved myself so
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=541873&page=1