doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Damascus explained

Pete M and I have come up with more Belgian gun and barrel maker's marks, some of which were used by US gunmakers. Please check your damascus barrels just before the barrel flats for any of these stamps and I'd sure like to add them to the 'Belgian Mker's Marks' album http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=17575181

L.C. Smith: Bauduin Doyen & Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont
Baker: Charles Spirlet & Arthur-Delvaux-Heuse
Lefever: Arthur-Delvaux-Heuse & George Laloux
Fox: Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont
Ithaca (Flues): Heuse-Riga Fils
Colt Patent Firearms Mfg. Co.: Plunger-Riga & Heuse-Riga Fils http://heuse.spahistoire.info/henriheuse.html
Remington:Named patterns used by Remington were London (Stub Twist), Twist, Laminated, Boston N. (Horse-shoe pattern), Boston 2 S.J. (large scroll 2 Iron Crolle), Oxford 2 & 4 S.J. (smaller scroll 3 Iron Crolle in several different patterns), Chain J, Etoile 3. B.P., Legia P. (Herring-bone pattern), Washington N 3. B.P. ("Stars & Stripes" or "American Flag Bunting"), Chine P ('mottled'), Ohonon 6 S.T., and Pieper P.
Remington damascus barrels with possible Belgian maker's marks include 'HP', frequently found on Oxford 4, likely Henri Pieper http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pieper%20en%20tete%20gb.htm Oxford patterns are used from the Model 1876 to the 1900 KED.
An Etoile pattern 1894 Pigeon Trap has a fused 'JP', possibly the mark of J. Pire & Cie, a large munitions firm established in Liege in 1885 http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pire%20gb.htm
The significance of 'S.J.' (Boston 2 and Oxford 2 & 4) is uncertain, but could be Simonis-Janssen http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...moulin%20gb.htm 'J' could also be one of the Janssen families http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20i%20j%20k/a%20janssen%20gb.htm
The meaning of 'B.P.' (Washington N and Etoile) is unclear.
There were at least 20 Belgian companies that operated under the name Thonon, from approximately 1836-1941. Fernand Thonon & Co. was the proud distributor of arms to the courts of Italy and the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg.
Crowned HL - E. Heuse-Lemoine http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20h/a%20heuse%20gb.htm
Claude Gaier's "Four Centuries of Liege Gunmaking" sheds some light on the connection between US and Belgian firms. Ernest Heuse-Lemoine (1834-1926) from Nessonvaux was a major force in the Vesdre Valley for barrel making. He maintained agents in London, Birmingham, and New York and his firm supplied the Belgian royal court. Every 3 years he would travel aboard and upon his return, would be met by a band in celebration because he always came back with more work orders than his own firm could handle. He would then distribute some of the work to smaller barrel makers in the Vesdre. Gaier states that Heuse-Lemoine supplied damascus barrels for at least 50 years to US makers, and that he invented the names of "Boston" and "Washington" damascus especially for the American market.

Flying snipe in an oval - Henri Pieper c. 1894
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pieper%20henri%20gb.htm
Supplied "Finest Damascus" for Remington Model 1894 EE Grade guns and "Oxford 4 S.J." barrels have been identified with 'HP' marks.
Henri Pieper received a patent for “Pieper' S Compressed Steel” on December 29, 1897.
Anciens Etablissements Pieper, often known simply as AEP, succeeded Etablissements Pieper, itself a successor to Henri Pieper & Companie, in 1905. At the time, premises were being occupied at 24 rue des Bayards in Liege, with a barrel making factory in nearby Nessonvaux. In 1907 a new factory was opened in Herstallez-Liege and the operations were consolidated. Pieper & Bayard used a Knight on horseback trademark.

Crown over FD in a diamond - Ferdinand Drissen
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20d/a%20drissen%20gb.htm

Three-lobed crown over a D - Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont of Nessonvaux Found on damascus Smith guns.
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20d/a%20delcour%20dupont%20gb.htm

DD in an oval lying - Delcour-Dupont Jean de Fraipont-Nessonvaux
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20i%20j%20k/a%20jobe%20t%20gb.htm

BD possibly the mark of Bauduin Doyen, a Nessonvaux damascus barrel and gun maker. Found on several Smith guns.

GDH- Gilles Delcour Herket de Fraipont

CC - Lucient Clement, also shows marks as CC AA & CC LC. On some guns made for Sears.

JP fused - J. Pire & Cie, on an "Etoile" pattern Remington Model 1894 Pigeon Trap http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pire%20gb.htm

J superimposed on a D- Jean Duchateau

J.L., usually on the wings of a ladybug, was one trademark for Joseph Janssen.
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20i%20j%20k/a%20janssen%20gb.htm Jean Lejeune of Nessonvaux is known to have supplied 'Oxford Superfine' and 'Boston' damascus.

LD- Dumoulin-Lambinon (1860-1879) http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20d/a%20dumoulin%20gb.htm
or L. Drion http://translate.google.com:80/translate...l%3Den%26sa%3DN


Crown over GL in an oval - George Laloux - common on Lefevers with serial numbers 2XXXX range.
Bee with G L on wings after about 1910
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20l/a%20laloux%20georges%20gb.htm


J J in an oval, two letters one with the top of the other and being separated from a horizontal bar and Crowned JJ.
Joseph Joiris of Nessonvaux http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20i%20j%20k/a%20joiris%20gb.htm

H.R.F. of Heuse-Riga Fils http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20h/a%20heuse%20gb.htm
Ithaca Flues model

ADH and a diamond - Arthur-Delvaux-Heuse de Fraipont. Jacques Delvaux and Heuse held a joint patent for the making of damascus, c. 1892. On Lefever and Baker

Crowned HL - Plunger-Lemoine E.

HB could be Heuse-Bovy
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20h/a%20heuse%20gb.htm

SC with a crown over - possibly Charles Spirlet, who also used a Crown over CS and Crown over S. On a Baker

L&T, TAT, TT&C - Theate-Lambin http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...amille%20gb.htm

Under one name or another, Pieper or their companies made firearms for nearly a century. The genius of Henri was his early adoption of the American factory system for arms production. Nicolas expanded the business. He is noteworthy for 2 reasons, his early hiring of women in the factory, side by side with men (some thing that did not take place in America until WWII). Also his large scale production of hand guns, which was the Pieper-Bayard mainstay for decades.

Henri Pieper was descendant from his German father, Heinrich Pieper. In the nearly century they were in business they produced rifles, shotguns, cartridges, machine guns, pistols, revolvers, and many military arms. It is easy to say, "They made junk" because at times they did. It also easy to say, "Their guns won just about every award and exposition in Europe", because at times they did. There is a misconception that they flooded the American market with cheap guns. They certainly sold their share of firearms under various trade names in the American market. However, they were not alone. It is simply too easy to assign all JABC to Pieper. Upon closer examination of these firearms, we often find other maker's trademarks and stamps.

Henri was followed in the business by Nicolas. I am not going to get into an exact history, nor listing of guns. It is simply too long.

Some names, trade names, etc associated with various Piepers;
Demi-Bloc, Centaure, Diane, Adler, Bayard, Eagle Gun Works, E.Leroy, P Couronné, The Leader, Royal Gun Works, Premier Arms, Compound Damascus, National Arms, Le Rationnel, Heny Arms

Nicholas Pieper, was in business 1906-1927, 1928-1932 making pistols and other arms with Jean Warnant and Hippolyte Thonon.

Trademarks stamped on barrels
NP, Nicolas Pieper
AEP, Anciens Establissements Pieper



Sources:
"Le Qui est Qui De L'Armurerie Liegeoise 1800-1950", Gadisseur-Druart
"Les Armuriers De Liege en Catalogues (1891-1930)", Gadisseur
"Bayard Les hommes, les armes et les machines du Chevalier Pieper & Cie 1859-1957", Druart
"Cinq siècles d'armurerie liégeoise", Claude Gaier

Web sources:
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pieper%20nicolas%20gb.htm
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...%20ets%20gb.htm
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pieper%20s%20a%20ets%20gb.htm
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pieper%20henri%20gb.htm
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pieper%20en%20tete%20gb.htm

Pete

axbent@spray.se
thx!

revdocdrew:

Most 19th century sources all refer back to Roger Bacon, Monk, Ilchester, in Somersetshire in the 13th century as having knowledge or being an "Arabic scholar." I was curious if anyone had any knowledge of Bacon's "6th Chapter Epistles of the Secrets of Arts" which definitely included info on gun powder, buth what about Damascus?

Kind Regards

Raimey
rse

Raimey-you're killin' me! The search continues.

revdocdrew:

I gave a warning that I was going to dig in history a bit. There is another English chap named Lt. Col. Bagnold cited as being an authority on barrels that stated that Damascus came from India(1819?). The then types, oh the varieties(wire/stub(required to make Damascus) & Damascus): Mr. Wiswould's Iron, Wednesbury's Skelp, Sham Damn Skelp, etc.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

OK Raimey-you got me. Did that come from The Gun by William Greener, 1835?

revdocdrew:

I believe I found a refernce in "Gunnery in 1858" by W. Greener and then went back to "The Gun 1834" by W. Greener, C.E. Both texts were originals. It seems that as W. Greener, or W.W. Greener, continued saga with the books, they assume that you have read the previous one as found listed on the title page. So, every next generation book has less info, just an inferred reference to a previous. I was curious too as to the intials "C.E." What did it stand for? Engineer of some description?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Not sure.

"The Gun" is available through Cornell Pubs
http://www.cornellpubs.com/Templates2/Greener%201835.htm

AND as an on-line book
http://books.google.com/books?id=oIEY4qL6_z0C&dq=wiswould%27s+iron

Great stuff!

Correction: "Gunnery in 1858" was an original text. "The Gun 1834" was a 20th century reprint. I've read so many chapters in many different books that they are all running together. Thanks for the reference. The online one is as I have read. But the reprint had "The Gun 1834" on the front page as well as 1834 for the date.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse