doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT: "The War" series by Ken Burns on Public TV

Jay, this may bring a smile to your father-in-law:

A few years ago yarning here in the woods about the navy in the Second World War, to spice things up I asked two friends, a RN Second Sea Lord and a RCN CAG fighter pilot, at what point did they realize that the Royal Navy had slipped to second place in power and prowess on the seas.

"Oh, I don't know if we ever did," said the knighted sailor whose responsibilities after the war included commandant of Dartmouth naval school. He was all you'd expect of a man of his responsibilities, with a well-tuned sense of humor, engagingly loaded with all the tricks of wardroom debate.

C'mon, I said, there's no one under the deck, no one to hear you. There must have been one battle, maybe in the South Pacific with the Americans, that said a page had turned in naval warfare: Crossing Nelson's T, Midway, Leyte Gulf. "Leyte Gulf," he said, with a wonderful smile, happy to give credit where it was due.

Thank you King, you're right, he will enjoy hearing this opinion about Leyte Gulf.


Valid point Jack, I regret the snide personal jab.

I agree with those who thought The War dragged a little at times, the second episode in particular. And yes, hardships and contributions of minorities have been covered before, but I still can't see harm or exaggeration in Burns' portrayal ... this stuff happened. I knew almost nothing about Japanese-Americans serving in WWII, and didn't know the details of Sen. Inouye's heroism, or the tardy Medal of Honor. I don't see anything PC about following people from various geographic regions as a device to portray the home front.

Again about Saving Private Ryan ... I've seen it just once, and consider it among the few finest films I've seen. The story line -- which raises an apparent question about the morality and politics of sacrificing a platoon to save a single soldier -- is also a framework for Spielberg to show through his characters the need to endure hideous, mind-numbing sacrifices of war to destroy a greater evil. Hanks was perfectly cast for his character's generous and fatally mistaken decision to release the captured German. His character is a compassionate American Everyman in a world where compassion can be naive weakness, and the consequences of failing to recognize and relentlessly destroy evil are fatal.

I didn't really mean that say SPR is pro-war -- just meant that it makes a compelling case that despite the awful price, some wars are necessary.

The series doesn't reflect nor does it emphasize all the trouble the Allied army had trying to engage what probably was the greatest army on earth, the German Army. The British trying to secure a city Caen that was supposed to be taken a few days after D-Day that wasn't secured until well into July and August!!! Watch "As trumpets fade" a movie about the grinding up of the 28th Infantry Division called after that battle "The Bloody Bucket" that's a perspective on the war in Europe few see or want to hear!
All the best

No problem, Jay.

All in all, 'The War' was a pretty good documentary. But it might better have been called 'America's War,' as it was totally US-centric and gave short shrift to our allies who actually bore the brunt of it.

My main objection to 'The War' is the fact that PBS allowed political organizations to preview the 'documentary' and force revisions in it. The result is 'The War' as we in 2007 would like it to have been, rather than 'The War' as it was in 1941-45.

Guess I can't get comfortable with race advocates dictating some of the 'history' being presented to Americans. Rewriting history to spotlight the exceptions simply conceals the ugly fact that racism was rampant - and accepted - at that time, and minorities were largely relegated to supporting roles. How can we learn from history when the lessons are being erased?

Correction - I talked to my father, who was also in WWII, and he told me the guy I mentioned before was not a ball turret gunner but rather a tailgunner in a B-29. He had 37 missions to his credit.

As for the PC stuff in Ken Burns' documentary, it can't be as bad as the way they have ruined the Liberty Bell display in Philadelphia. About 50% of the display makes damn sure we all know about slavery.

I bought couple today: Tank Rider Into the Reich with the Red Army by Evgeni Bessonov and Red Partisan The memoir of a Soviet Resistance Fighter on the Easter Front by Nikolai I. Obryna'ba.

The series is good for what it is but why doesn't it explain why our infantry squads had to redo their training all the way back from AIT when they went up against the German infantry??? Two men on point find and pin the enemy down while two sets of three, I believe, circled and flanked the enemy. Two men in reserve just in case. Well on the battle field that didn't happen the Germans would pin down whole squads with their firepower incorporated into their infantry squads. The Allies had to go to platoons or better to deal with the firepower of the German infantry squad!! No better form of flattery when every major army today models their infantry squad after the WWII German infantry squad!!!
All the best