doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Post-WWI Prussian Daly maker

I'm trying to track down the maker of a 1929 production Prussian Daly. (As many Daly enthusiasts are aware, the post-WWI/post-Lindner Prussian Daly story is a complicated one. The serial number ranges are all over the place and several makers have been associated with these guns including Heym and August Schuler.)

The gun in question is a fairly minty model 135 12 gauge gun. The ONLY unexpected marking is on the barrel flats - the initials "F.A." Everything else from a proof mark and barrel marking perspective is what you would be expected for a gun of this vintage - nothing to indicate a maker. Note that these initials are NOT ahead on the barrel flats where (what are thought to be) the barrelman's initials are often found on a Lindner-vintage Daly.

Anyone want to take a stab?

Thanks,
Ken

Ken,

I can't come up with any obvious maker with "F.A." the only two that come close for the time period are Franz Rudolph Albrecht and one of the Anchutz brothers Fritz. There was two or three gunmakers named fritz Anchutz.

Keep in mind that the initials may be the person running the company and not the company name. Dalys made by F.W. Heym Company are marked "A.H." for August Heym who was in charge of the company when they were made.

Guys, I am sitting here tonight working on a "BSW" marked Simson which has a 338 date code on the barrel flats. In addition to the usual German proofs, it also has two tiny initials at the upper inside corner of the left barrel flat. Guess what? F.A. in capital letters. Perhaps an inspector who later worked for Simson?

Ken:
Please give an idea of the serial number.
Best,
John
PS---Is there any evidence that Heym built anything but rifles that could have the Daly name?

Would this do as evidence? The serial number, date and "A.H." fall right into the other F.W. Heym (including one in my collection)marked guns.

Michael:
That beauty will do very well !!! LOL
Thanks for sharing it with us.
Best,
John

Chief,

Very interesting. The "F.A." initials on the Daly in question are in the same location as the gun you describe.

John,

In my haste at the Vintagers event, I did not copy down the serial number. From memory, it is in the 25,xxx - 26,xxx range. Unfortunately the owner is not on the internet or email so I will have to get details via snail mail.

The engraving was typical of what you'd expect to see on a 135 or 185 Daly - about 25% scroll coverage of sorts.

MP,

Stylistically, the 1929 Daly looked like an earlier Lindner-made gun. If not for the serial number, date marks, etc., it could be taken for a Lindner gun made 15 years earlier. The scallop at the rear of the action had the gentle asymmetrical lines of the earlier guns.

I came up with a similar list of German gunmakers who initials are F.A. using the the "Alte Scheibenwaffen Vol II" reference, but none of those were familiar. I keep hoping to find an easy answer like that Heym had a brother with those initials but so far nothing else. The fact that Chief has found the same initials on a Simson gun makes the mark sound more like an inspectors mark (??) than a makers mark. If my memory of the serial number is correct, I'd say Heym is still the most likely maker.

Ken

Thought these shots might be of interest. Very similar action style and shape to the gun pictured by Michael, much smaller reinforce bolster under the watertable, has loaded chamber indicators on the back side of the balls of the fences rather than cocking indicators, and has overhanging sears.

Ken, I have since checked a total of 15 other Suhl proofed guns from the same general period, by Sauer, Merkel, Simson, and Fischer. I didn't bother checking a few Zella Mehlis proofed guns. I have two more Simson guns that bear the same "F.A." mark, a 12 gauge SxS dated 138, (it's listed for sale and pictured elsewhere on this site) and a 16 gauge O/U gun dated 137. So, whoever your guy is, he definitely had a relationship either with Simson or the Suhl proofhouse for some period of time, at least nine years total.

Here is a small list of Heym numbers from 1927-33.

Heym Serial Numbers


5758 AH proofed in 9-1927 .410SXS
5858 AH Undated 1903 30-06 American Market
5897 AH Unknown proof date 12 gauge SXS Daly
5898 AH proofed in 9-1928 12gauge SXS Daly
6061 AH Proved in 5-1930 20gauge SXS
6070 AH proofed in 6-1930 7x57 American Market
6097 AH proofed in 1931 12gauge American Market
6116 was proofed in 8-1933 (not marked Heym)

Chief, just curious but does that BSW stamp on the top barrel show up as a bulge inside the barrels? It looks like whoever stamped it gave the die a stout whack.

I would suggest that the gun that Ken is identifying is by Schuler. The 1929 date is within the time that Lindner was still Daly's agent in Suhl. Schuler and others were building the guns for Lindner's approval and shipment to Daly.Alfred Kahn was in the picture as well but without my notes, I cannot remember what the dates were.
I think the reason that so many of these guns appear somewhat alike is that the castings came from the same source. That being Sauer.
The serial number of Ken's gun is right where it would be if Schuler had built it.
Best,
John

Three fast pictures of the Heym-Daly markings , the “A” in the A.H.” is very distinctive I call it a “Pagoda-A” because of the little roof on it. There is only the Heym numbers, no Daly numbers.

Michael:
Please check your references. While looking at your pics, something rang a bell, but I can't bring it in.
Alfred Kahn's trade name was AKAH.
Best,
John

Sorry John I have no idea what your suggesting, the shotgun pictured is made by the F.W. Heym Company.

Jerry, there's no bulge. What you are seeing is just a trick of the shadows. The stamped imprint does not appear any more harder struck than the lower one, and neither is overly struck. It does look as you describe in the photo, but not when you hold the barrels in hand.

I was thinking that the AH might be a mark of Alfred Kahn.
Best,
John

The "AH" mark is August Heym.

John: I have AKAH as - Albrect Kind, Berlin-Nurnberg, Germany c.1920s to at least 1970s, retailer of sporting goods and firearms.

I have the same info concerning AKAH as does Ian. Was there a gunmaker using the same moniker? Is John having another, uh, moment?

Alfred Kahn was a wholesaler in the late 1920s. I do not know when he went out of business. I was told by a very old gun maker, in Suhl, that he was somehow associated with Lindner, Schuler and Sauer.
Perhaps I am having a senior moment if AKAH was not his company.
The correcting of erroneous information is always good. But, let's be certain that the info is incorrect.
Best,
John

Serial number 6116 on MP's list above.