doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Damascus explained

Have to tuck those tails in somewhere.

jack

I think Greener mentions "auto hammers" in his book.

What's up with all those tool marks? Is this Baker some kind of "Poacher's Grade" maker?

I'm scared of patterns like that...I'm not sure if it is twist or damascus or what it is.

I do know it was at the bottom rung of Damascus barrel making....if I'm going to put my life on the line shooting a Damascus shotgun I'm going to only shoot the higher grade barrels.

Here is a selection from W.W. Greener's Modern Breech-Loaders in detailing barrel making techniques as described by W.W. Greener or his father W. Greener. I don't want to state the obvious or be redundant. So if anyone wants to see the 2 pages this text is contained within, let me know & I'll try to take a pic of it.

"The generality of barrel-makers spoil this metal by an attempt to obtain figure; for all extreme twistings in the rod depreciate the metal by separating the fibres: to borrow a simile, they obtain only an over-twisted rope. This is not only disadvantageous, but useless; for the extreme density of the metal renders the figure difficult to be shown distinctly, as acid acts upon it but slightly, and never so well as on metal fabricated from two differently constructed carbonised materials."


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I usually see worksmanship like that on cheapo Belgian or Spanish guns. That thing looks pretty crude to me. I would not shoot it either.
Let me present a quote from very well respected expert (seen references about his work on the other side of the Atlantic):
"Many US shooters are playing self-styled proof-house experts by deciding that their foreign-mde guns can withstand 'X' level of chamber pressure."
Many seem to put faith in Euro C.I.P. 65mm shells some of which can generate above 60MPa of gas pressure.

Jag,
Im not sure what you mean by crude. Someone dinged the barrel lug with a hammer or something but the Baker guns especially the early ones like mine are very well made and machined to a high standard.

reb87-

I would be proud to own that shotgun! It looks very nice to me. I am certainly no expert, but the "imperfection" or disruption of the damascus pattern on your shotgun doesn't appear to be a repair but rather a part of the manufacturing process. Like the imperfection on my Meriden, it appears to have been situated for the sake of cosmetics. If so the manufacture and assembly of these barrels was not haphazard. That may be all this is, a cosmetic. It would appear, given the location in the breach area that the craftsmen of the day considered it no serious safety defect.

I'll leave to Drew or others far more informed to discuss the use of Belgian made barrels on fine shotguns, but I suspect the list is long and includes some shotguns within the higher ranks (even some English make). No doubt the English have a well-deserved reputation for making the best barrels. I have read, however, that even some of the English makes imported damascus from Belgium.

If price is a reflection of where the Baker shotgun was placed in the pecking order, your Baker was no slouch. It was priced at $22.50 in the 1908 Sears catalog (when an LC Smith with fluid steel barrels cost $25 an Ithaca with damascus stub twist cost $24 and my Meriden hammer gun with damascus cost $13.59).

This Very Fine Four Iron Crolle is on a Baker Presentation Grade. A quite similar pattern is found on Colt 1883s, Remington 1894 D grades, and Parker DH. We know Baker obtained damascus barrels from Charles Spirlet & Arthur-Delvaux-Heuse and Colt from Plunger-Riga & Heuse-Riga Fils. Remington used several makers, mostly H. Pieper and Ernest Heuse-Lemoine of Nessonvaux. We're still working on Parker's source.

Dbad,
My guns are actually "B" grades and priced at $37.35 on your price list, obviously better than those weak fluid steel barrels on the Smith . Thanks, Ross