doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The history behind Iron Man Phil

Exactly right, Geo.

"Historical significance" aside (yawn), we all know the reason the photo was taken was so the trapper could have bragging rights for years to come. It's the equivalent of getting an Oscar amongst the outdoors-flannel-Skoal crowd.

If he could see past his own nose he would see that he's just ensuring the downfall of his 'profession' by staging those photos. So that he might brag, others will lose.

I very much appreciate "eightbores" point an to it I will make this clarification: My mention of the fact that the red fox is not native to North America was only a point of information and to some extent to make note that it obviously competes with our grey fox. The grey, I also point out, has considerably less market value. My question was how many greys had to be released from the traps in the arduous collection of that many reds. Both type of fox are trapped using the same methods thus many greys are trapped in the attempt to collect reds. It is unavoidable. The question was posed to make note of the additional burden of catching and releasing unwanted greys and to ascertain how many greys are out there. As to ChuckH's comment on the upland bird species that are alien and released for the purpose of hunting, I generally have no problem with this except for a concern that indigenous species may suffer as result of the competion and that games departments may neglect indigenous species, like the bobwhite quail, and defer to interest by sportsmen in chukers and ringneck pheasant. But back to the specific issue of 1285 red fox taken- I am happy the man can still make income from his pursuit and I hope he and his grandchildren (if they wish) are able to do so far into the future. It is my hope that the grey fox finds favor again too! Fox trapping or trapping in general, is one of the few commercial wildlife activities of which I remain in favor-unlike pheasant farm hunting and shooting "managed" deer over food plots from preset blinds. The later is much the same as my pursuit of groundhogs except I have to find the holes, set up my own equipement and fewer are excluded from the pursuit by a price tag . And NO I do not eat every ground hog I shoot. If any further clarification is required I will oblige.

Kurt

Bill,
To paraphrase Matthew Quigley: This ain't college an' you ain't Wyatt Earp ...er, ah, well sumptin like that. OK, I'll clarify my thoughts. I have no problem with the volume of red fox Phil trapped...at all. I'm in agreement with those that believe staging the pic was an act of self-centered bragging, which I whole heartedly think he earned. I'm also in agreement with those that believe it will ultimately result in a negative response from non-hunting/trapping public. Double edged sword, you see.

With regard to those builders won't build if there's no one to buy. Too many people...nobody seems to get that nor want to talk about that...very much engrained in our culture to raise large families.

Kurt:; You're a little behind on the fur market..Last year the Grey pelts sold for 1/3 to 1/2 more than the reds.. this years market report in Fur Fish and Game, predicts reds @#20-$25 and greys @ $35-$40.. As for posting the photo, I think it matters little.PETA and other anti groups are so underhanded that they could doctor up other photos to include any number they want.. As for catching greys, not all habitat includes both species and a trapper can be selective, to an extent, in making, baiting and luring his sets, to avoid greys//MDC

MD, Thanks for the update! It is true that the last trapper I spoke to was checking his line, maybe as long as five years ago, when he told me that he released all greys due to low market price. I am happy the grey has made a comeback as this represents to me, a upsurge in the fur industry which was damaged by the antis. Anything legally done that conflicts with that crowd I like.

Thanks again,
Kurt

Right on the money, Chuck. The forces on builders are similar to the forces on Walmart. If nobody comes to buy there is no store. It is simply a reflection of buyers desires. Builders guess where people want to live and if they are wrong they do not make the mistake again.

Trying to get people to move to the city is a common cry for control of growth on open land. It apparently does not work since the buyer chooses where he will live, not the builder.

The only way to control development is to control birthrate and immigration.

Now, how do I know that?

Most indigenous species both plant and animal are just here longer than we are so we don't know how they got here and assume they were always here. We usually refer to nonindigenous species as ones that man has brought in.

"Trying to get people to move to the city is a common cry for control of growth on open land. It apparently does not work since the buyer chooses where he will live, not the builder"

That's great, but it presumes the builder has no culpability and is some sort of victim of circumstance.

The average house buyer (note I did not say 'home' buyer) would be glad to live in the city....but when he goes to buy his 3-2 on 1/5 acre with all the amenities it's located in a suburb.

The buyer might choose his tile color, but more often than not he's looking at houses that have been crammed onto the cheapest lot possible. It's either that or buy some 60 year old piece of junk in the city with a 60 amp service and lead pipes.

Are house buyers stupid and shortsighted? Yes. But so are developers and builders. The average developer swings a bigger club than the average house buyer.

In the future, lawyer jokes will have been replaced by developer jokes.

I dunno where you got this info. I don't know anyone around me that wants to live in the city.



A builder would be glad to put a house on a huge lot if that was what the general public wanted, but more often than not, the market would be slim due to the cost. Property values of the vacant land or existing developments set the value of the completed house/land property. Are there 'carpetbaggers'? Sure. It's up to the buyers to weed them out and not buy from them if they don't like their prices. This is a capitolistic society after all. If you want all the houses to cost the same, the U.S. is not the place to look for a house.



I sense a little anomousity here.
I think you just called just about everyone on this board "stupid and shortsighted". You must rent, right?

Chuck:

I believe you are digging a foxhole in the sand?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

He didn't catch one grey fox all season, you can't aways go by the FF&G prices, yes greys did very well last fall. You also have to take into consideration that last winter was a warm winter over seas. Therefore the fur market is soft right now and I doubt reds will bring that much in the SE PA area. They ware what is known as flats. But I have sent flats up to Canada during high prices and they were graded soft and paid well.

Phil has his own concrete business, after he takes all the loss of work and such to trap he's loosing money somtimes. When you into Long Lining like Phil that is all one thinks about. TO trap like that takes all year to prepare. He even made that catch with a hernia.

He'll head west for cats and coyotes then down south for beaver and otter this year. Trapping is either in your blood or you could careless about trapping. It's tough hard work with long days fighting the weather. A hunter can go duck hunting for a few hours and call it a day. An ethical trapper has to get up and check his line no matter what.

When I am mink trapping toss in dealing with water and you'll see grown men cry after a few hours of being wet, cold cracked hands, wet feet. Last winter I went full bore for Mink. After sitting down and figuring out what I lost from being away from my business each mink cost me 80 bucks to catch. It's a labor of love.

Look for the May Outdoor Life and you'll see they did a nice page on Phil. If you think the anti's are gaining ammo from that catch your dead wrong. They love to see outdoors men fight amungst themselves. We are out worse enemy when it comes to defending our rights even though we all eat from the same table.