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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,753 Likes: 746
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,753 Likes: 746 |
Damascus and Gunman, Do not fret, the various names of parts are quite small details, this time around. Thank you very much for the photos, article, descriptions, and commentary, it is most welcomed here, where, they were sold, but, not built. There really isn't anyone to cover this information, the way you have, on this side of the pond. Thanks again. My question per the integral striker/tumblers was partly based on the fact that earlier Webley models did have disc set strikers, and I would expect the tooling and jigs would have been well sorted out by the time of the appearance of the 700, and shouldn't have added to the cost as much as starting from scratch. The striker/tumbler isn't a part that fails often, but, that fact was poor comfort for two hunter friends of mine who lost the use of their 700s for the rest of the season, and, the repair is not a trivial one, as noted. I own a Spanish gun fitted with the disc set strikers, and, owing to the scarcity of good, qualified, double gun 'smiths in my part of the world, consider them an excellent option for a serious field gun.
Best, Ted
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,379 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,379 Likes: 105 |
AAAgh!!! Not again!!
L Brown. I suggest you do read the posting and the replies. The name for the part in question was taken from a Webley & Scott parts list from the 1970s yes! They did supply some parts and castings, given to me by a local Gunsmith. Now if yo you read the description of how the action opens and closes it is obviously not the description of a genuine screw grip action. Gunman has kindly given the correct factory name for the said top leaver surround in one of his replies for which I am grateful.
Oh!!!! Please can we put this to bed because I am starting to feel that firstly I wish I had not put pen to paper as the say secondly I have the feeling this screw grip thing, which was not my naming of the part is going to follow me around every time this posting rears its head like the chains of Marley's ghost. Damascus, sorry I didn't wade through all the posts. From "The History of W. & C. Scott Gunmakers, by Crawford and Whatley (p.69): "Both Model 400 and 500 guns were fitted with the Webley Screw Grip, a type of rib extension patented by T.W. Webley in 1882." Most of us with some familiarity with British doubles are familiar with the screw grip. Unfortunately, it likely WILL haunt you. If someone referred to a Model 700 as a screw grip gun in Double Gun Journal, poor Dan Cote would find himself buried under a pile of letters and emails. And I know how you feel. Narrowly escaped that fate myself when I did an article for Shooting Sportsman about proof, chamber length, pressure, etc. I used the standard formula for converting a pressure measurement in bars to psi. Unfortunately, the proofmaster informed us, even though the British were by then marking proof pressure in bars, they were still working off old lead crusher pressure readings rather than piezoelectronic transducers. I think it was all an evil British plot to confuse your cousins across the Pond! Fortunately, we corrected the numbers and provided an explanation before the story ran.
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11 |
KY Jon I just found it yreserday and found Damascus article was very enlightened a extreamly informative Webly & Scott information. He didmentiom this gun so I just wanted to bring it to his and DGJ attention. I think the reserve is in the high 20000.00 range
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2 |
Hello All, I found this thread during a search on the Webley and Scott Model 500. I made that search in order to find out a bit more about a gun that I have just bought online. I have yet to receive the gun which I have purchased as a house gun for home. The gun was advertised as a pre-war (I am assuming WW II) Webley and Scott side by side with 30 barrels, 2 3/4 inch chambers and choked full and full. It is nitro proofed to 1 1/4oz. It also appears to have the Webley Screw Grip with the lever and trigger guard blued. The serial number (all matching numbers) is 121009. Am I correct in thinking this gun might be a Model 500? The gun has recently been test fired and certified in safe working condition by an Adelaide gunsmith. It is described by him as closing firm with no looseness. I intend to use no more that 28 gram (1 1/4oz = 35 grams) loads on snakes and rabbits around the house as well as shooting the occasional clay socially with friends. Does this sound like a sympathetic retirement for such a gun? I wanted an original Webley and Scott for the sake of tradition and as a keepsake that is of more interest than a modern clay basher. Can anyone give me a ore in depth understanding of what I have purchased? Kind regards, Rohan Williams. [img:left]https://www.dropbox.com/s/7fcfx1329haarb1/IMG_0308%20%281%29.JPG?dl=0[/img] [img:left]https://www.dropbox.com/s/hw4lps3x7t3j2bu/IMG_0309%20%281%29.JPG?dl=0[/img] [img:left] https://www.dropbox.com/s/gpo6gpdy96xv3a2/IMG_0312.JPG?dl=0[/img]
Drinking while thinking
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,124 Likes: 195
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,124 Likes: 195 |
From my list of gun serial numbers the run from 120000 began in 1950 and from your photograph the gun looks like a Webley & Scot 700 series with a semi pistol grip. more close up pictures could be of more help.
The only lessons in my life I truly did learn from where the ones I paid for!
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 75 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 75 Likes: 1 |
Damascus,
As usual, another interesting and well written article, or post, on British guns. I have been reading your posts since the days you were a member of The Internet Gun club. I miss that site.
Do you still own that hammer gun that James Mason carried in "The Shooting Party"?
Thank you - again,
Michael
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89 |
Rohan, your gun is definitely the model 700, made in 1950. The model 500 is very seldom seen, few were made. It utilized the Webley screw grip third fastener and the back of the action was scalloped. It also has the medium grade of engraving, which was rather elaborate and had much fancier wood with fine checkering. And they were made before the war. I own the only one I have ever seen. It is often confused with the Model 400, which was basically the same but with a straight back action. Your gun is very good and will last several lifetimes given proper care.
When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,158 Likes: 1154
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,158 Likes: 1154 |
1 1/4 oz. for snakes? I understand y'all got some big rabbits down under but man ...... you can kill a rattler as big as they grow with a little 1/2 oz. .410 load, most of them with a .22 magnum shot cartridge.
Welcome to the board, Rohan. My sympathies on the big snakes y'all got down theah.
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2 |
Thank you so much for your replies; Damascus, Joe, and Stan. I really appreciate the input from those in the know. Im glad that it is indeed a 700. I have only read and heard good things about that model. Its particularly nice to have an early one in good working condition.
Stan, The only reason we use heavy loads on snakes down here is that the stakes are pretty high if you dont kill with the first two shots!!
No, I was thinking that a 28 gram load would be the biggest I would put through the gun just in an effort to preserve it as best I can while I am the custodian. Those loads would be mostly used on clays and maybe the odd fox. We dont have the need to reach for high birds or the like down here.
Thanks again and Im really glad that I found this forum. I will keep it close and follow the conversations as Im sure to pick up some great tips.
Drinking while thinking
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,964 Likes: 89 |
Thought Id clear up a little confusion about the Model 400 and Model 500. Here is the Model 400, also known as the Proprietary Model. It was made from 1900 to 1940 and was offered in all three grades. This example is the plainest grade offered. It featured the famous Webley Screw Grip third bite and the action had a flat back with rebates in back of action on each side of top tang. And here is an example of the Model 500, Built as a light game gun in 12 and 16 gauge, it too was known as the Proprietary Model. It was only offered in Grade 2 and was made from 1925 to 1946. Had all the features of the Model 400 but featured a scalloped back on the sides of the action. It also does not have the rebates in the action on each side of the top strap as is on the 400. Crawford, in his book, The History of W & C Scott Gunmakers, says very few of this model were made. This one was marketed by Army & Navy.
When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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