doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 10 guage patterns

The paper is 24 inches wide. All Targets were shot at 35 yards.

36 grains of IMR SR 7625 in a 10 guage 3 & 1/2" Federal hull with a Winchester 209 primer. BP 10 wad with 2-20 guage 1/2" fiber wads and 1 20 guage nitro card 1 & 5/8 oz's of #4 lead. Star crimped.
Lyman claims 8500 psi and 1300 fps.
This is the better than my black powder loads.

This is the same load in my Scott 10. Should kill a turkey just fine.

At 35m or 50 paces, outer cicle 75cm with area of 4418cmsq divided in 12 fields, inner cicle 37.5cm with area of 1104,5cmsq divided into 4 fields? You don't have to count each hole like an idiot, but look for "empty" patches (bad news) equal to medium sized mans hand or larger.
Sorry, but I have to give those patterns a failing grade.

This is kinda why I don't pattern my shotguns. You can't evenly distribute randomness, entropy won't allow it. I'd be more concerned with Point-Of-Impact (POI). Looks like the right barrel (or 1st shot) of your Purdy is shooting a bit high (Maybe you held high on the dot?) I wouldn't got beyond 35 yards though, just in case the patterns get worse.....What chokes are on those barrels you shot?

Although the patterns aren't ideal, they would work if they are centered on what you're shooting at. Just out of curiosity, is that chilled lead or magnum shot?

Mike Doerner

I can get them better looking by going to a smaller shot size with a higher pellet count.
There's only 221 pellets on average in 1 & 5/8 oz's of #4 shot..I've gone the smaller shot route and wasn't too satisfied with the results on turkeys shot on the wing in the fall.

Mike I forget the exact choking but they both come out about Improved Modified in a 10. I did use magnum West Coast shot. I shot the targets off a rest and had my head higher on the first target.

Looks like you have a good pattern for IC choke, but everyone usually wants a full choke pattern for turkey. Then again, you're shooting antiques, so you go with what you got. I wouldn't go down in shot size, but that's just me. You probably could go down to #6 shot size without worrying about crippling at 35 yards and may fill out the pattern a bit more.

Mike Doerner

Mike show me an IC choke that will put the bulk of it's load on a 24 inch piece of paper at 35 yards...and I'll take it off your hands.

No doubt 6 shot will kill a turkey. I've shot 'mine and your share' with 6's in the spring....head shots.

One small problem....I'm not a good enough shot to hit them in the head on the wing.

HomelessjOe: If I were doing this, I would cut the shot cup off from a 20 ga. rem. or win. plastic wad. discard the over powder section and place the shot cup just under the shot at the bottom of the BPD wad. Now I have a double wad that is narrow at the back, or rear of the shot column. Their is plenty of room in the case to do this. I would then patern the load at 35 yards and 65 yards plus.
David Lien

Why can't you head shoot them on the wing? Just focus on the head as you do when shooting them on the ground. Don't get distracted by the huge body and wings. It is a good way to make sure you are out front and focused on any game bird. It is like looking at the leading edge of a skeet target to ensure you are focused on the target and not looking at the barrel.

Pattern wise you might find a light shot charge beneficial. Try a few patterns with ounce and 3/8 or even 1/4. I don't think most of the older guns were intended to use heavy charges like 1 1/2 oz and heavier in the 10ga. That is why they had 8 gauge guns. In the last 50 years the trend to heavier loads has come about and it doesn't necessarily work well. The impact of the shorter shot string seems to make up for the lighter load too.

Jerry:

Very well and truthfully stated. I couldn't have said it any better. Another thought is to watch the wing beat and attempt to time the shotstring to arrive when the wings are up in order to avoid thick wing feathers.

Kid Regards,

Raimey
rse

With all this talk of head-shootin' you guys must have more presence of mind than I do when a bird the size of a turkey erupts from the ground. I can't even be sure I'm head-shooting Canada Geese over decoys. I say stick with big shot and break'em down...Geo

Might not ought to have admitted that!

He needs 5 shots per barrel to evaluate those loads. Turkey on wing will take 5 to 6 solid body hits with English #1 to bring it down.

Raimey, I would have trouble orchestrating a shot to arrive between wing beats! Flight of the shot is pretty much an invisible event so adjusting it for range and wing position would be way too much for me! If I could do that I could just put on my Superman Cape and fly out there to catch them - no gun required.

If enough concentration is place on the bird to see the wing beat, then the target is acquired. I have done it several times in the path from their roost to their breakfast buffet and it was no more that 2 cartridges of Rem. 3" duplex of #5s & #6s per bird. The turkeys are prone to glide at times and one has to take time and pattern them. It's not a 1 time hunt. But on a similar hunt, I have seen the same round seem to bounce off ole Tom on a ground shot. For the nonbelievers: why would I stretch the truth. I'm not a dealer.

Kind Regards,

Raimey

David you think the double shot cup would increase pressures...both my guns are Nitro Proofed for 4 tons and marked 1 & 1/2 oz. Only other shotgun loading I've did was with Blackpowder like I said my guns are Nitro proofed but I don't want to push the envelope. I do plan to pattern the guns at a little longer range.
Not much low pressure data for a 3 & 1/2" 10.

Honesty never hurt anybody George. I'd try 2's but they are illegal in most states I hunt.
As far as timing the wingbeats...lol. All I can say is you never saw my dog bust them.

PJ I shot 5 or 6 loads per barrel and they were all similar...a couple of the targets are pushing 200 hundred pellets in a 24 inch circle at 35 yards.

Homeless, there is plenty of low pressure data for 10ga 2 5/8 or 2 7/8 load available. Send me a PM with your email. You can use the shorter shells just fine in the longer chambers.

Jerry I've saw the low pressure data for 2 & 7/8"...I bought a Ponsnesswarren 10 gauge reloader it won't work with shorter hulls.
I've got a roll crimper and could cut them but I don't want to go that route.

If you are looking at shooting them on the wing you might be better off with larger shot than #4. #4 shot thickens up the pattern over larger shot but the larger shot has the advantage of better penetration down range. So three hits from #2 may impart more energy than five or six hits from #4's.

#4's and #5's are fine for head and neck shots where you need multiple hits to be sure to hit the spinal cord or brain area but how deep will they penetrate on a passing shot to reach a vital area? Two or three inches to get into the body cavity in many areas is the minimum. The bony rib, back and breast area are a tough nut to crack. Just like a up the rear-tail shot, also know as the Texas barin shot, on a goose is a real bear to bring down a goose whitout real large shot at a decent range. Killing a turkey on the wing, at any great distance, can be hard to do.

I would try 1 1/2 ounces of #2 or larger shot, with buffer, if possible. If you get good center pattern density at 25, 30 or 35 yards I would be very happy. Better to have a tight center pattern than an evenly spread pattern. Five or ten yards is a lot easier to deal with when you start out with tight patterns.

Jon you missed the part about legal shot sizes...I don't shoot at turkeys at long range. If you get a wing shot it's usually close and low....most are called back and killed after the flush.

Jon here's link to my dog and a little info about how it all works. http://trkyhntr.home.att.net/buster.html

Quote from one of Joe's latest posts sort of lets out those bigger shot sizes, now doesn't it.

I know not where all Joe hunts, but do note he is from TN & happen to know that TN law specifies shot no larger than #4 for turkey hunting.
I also note that at least early enough to be included in his 1910 book, W W Greener stated the only advantage a 10 "Bore" held over a 12 "Bore" was with shot loads exceeding 1¼ oz. He recommended a load of 4 drams 1½oz for most useage.

HomelessjOe: The concept with the second wad is the same as Pionered By Frances Sell in his writings in the late 1950s. Frances Sell found that if he cut donut holes in the under shot wad, in 20 Ga 3" hand loads with 1 1/4 oz of shot he could get close to 100% patterns. This was pre plastic wad era. He claimed that the shot charge worked like A boat tail bullet. Yeah it worked better in 10 and 12 gauges than it did in his twenty ga. Many long range pass shooters have loaded shells in this mannor for the last half-century. I think it might work with Black powder and card wads, but have never attempted it.

I have used this Idea with 105 Mec. and BPD 10 plastic wads with the 20 ga. shot cup in the bottom of the 10 ga. wad. I always add buffer, and results from Tom Roster is that velocity and presures are a little high. Patterns are very tight. I shoot these loads in NID Ithacas and Neuman 10s. Never shoot more than 1 3/4oz of lead shot.

Last year I loaded some 1 3/8 oz lead shot, Rem. primer, 30 gr. 7625 in Federal 2 7/8 in, case with the double wad, no buffer. Shot these shells in an NH Parker with .039 choke they shot very well, I did not send to Tom R. for results though. So I can not tell you if it will raise the presaure in your gun.

You might try #3 shot it worked For Elmer Keith, it works for me and it might just work for you. It is smaller than #2 shot and allmost as good for penetration.

David Lien

One little fact "No One" can seem to understand.
""TN law specifies shot no larger than #4 for turkey hunting.""
Doesn't matter how good #3, #2, British #1's etc shoot, he's seeking a load for TN Turkeys. This was pointed out way back up front.

Here's a nice hen (9.3lbs) I killed the other day at about 35 yards with my Purdey 10 ga. with #4 copper plated lead.

So much for "blown" patterns.....

Remember, you cannot organize entropy and enthalpy.....

Mike Doerner

Here's a few more a shot with the Purdey 10 ga. last week. 2 nice gobblers and a hen.

There you are you ol'sod!
...but where are you now, haven't heard much from you.
and about your wardrobe.

In the woods Lowell.
Here's another hen that fell to the Purdey.

Good for you bean!
Me too, goin' deer huntin' again tomorrow.

I'd show you the other 6 but you might call me a game hogg.