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question on the morphy gun, what is the #731 on the action flats? sn is visible and stated as 60782...

second more general question re: ideals...when did the change occur in the lugs and floorplate? this gun has both lugs flush with floorplate, my late 30's gun and the subject gun in this thread have the lugs recessed and not protruding through the floorplate. i have never seen any time period reference to establish a judgement upon - have wondered if the change was concurrent with the model numbering changes in the early 30's.

the morphy gun is listed as 1935, but that disagrees with two things i believe to be correct; the 5S style model numbers were replaced in 1932 (?) with the later three digit type, and argo provided a listing of ideal serial numbers in august 2018 that clearly shows 1928 as the correct year of production.
tom

It was NOT Manufrance that machined barrels for Canons Raye-it was a freestanding Father and Son business that did that for the trade. I have been in the shop, and watched the US manufactured Cincinnati lathe with the step attachment that does that operation.

My only problem with an Ideal is I can�t use one. They are a fine gun, novel in design, and I have pointed that out many times here. Just too far out of MY wheelhouse.
I also own other designs of gun, have noted that previously, and pointed out, many, many times that a Darne is not for everyone.

A comment that notes I only care for one design of gun is pure ignorance.

I have been involved in the order and production of Darne slug guns, which, were also built to handle bird shot. They were not built with raye barrels, but, were regulated to put rifled slugs about 2-3� apart at 55 yards. The chokes were as the customer specified, but, usually IC and MOD were specified. The customer also had to specify what slugs he planed on using. The gun would be regulated with them.

Raye barrels were only for the dispersal of birdshot. No matter what gun they were ordered on. And, they are found in many different types of French guns, often labeled as �Becassiers� or, woodcock models.
Raye barrels were available on any grade Darne I imported. I never had a customer ask for one, and never sold a new Raye barreled gun.

Best,
Ted

I assume the rifling twists, but at what rate and how deep is the rifling?

I have shot and shot at a lot of LBJs (little brown jobs (birds)) with .22 shot in rifled barrels, and I have patterned some varieties of .22 shotshells. I can say rifling really tears up patterns relative to what is possible with smooth bores, so I am interested to hear more about these raye barrels.

IMHO you are correct in noting that this gun is from the 1920's and for the reasons you stated.

Re the floor plate. The solid floorplate is typically added to guns of a higher grade and/or ejector guns of any grade. I have looked at 100's of Ideals in the last 10 years. I have never seen an ejector gun, typically about 10% of what comes up for sale in France, that does not have the solid floor plate.

Extractor guns usually, but not exclusively, have the through lumps. That's probably because higher grade guns were typically ordered with ejectors. But, as Gil's gun shows, there are a few extractor guns floating around with the solid floor plate. Not actually solid, just really finely fitted pieces filling the holes. Seams often disguised by engraving.

Going to dig out my Mournatas book tomorrow and see what he says about the dispersal barrels.

I have a 20 grade 1 and a 12 grade 6 both made in 1926 and have the rectangular hole in the floor plate. I have not used them much yet. I have tried leaving the barrels open while hunting (with other guns) and invariably I forget and the shells wind up on the ground. I wonder if some scotch tape would work.

I vaguely recall someone telling me or my reading it here that if you pull back the under lever the gun cannot fire. I have not tried it. Anyone know if that rumor is true? and whether it is viable for upland hunting?

Miller,

Paradox was the trade-mark for the Holland and Holland ball and shot guns. WR used Explora (12 gauge) and Fauneta (20 gauge) ball and shot guns.

Ken

Builder, is your grade 6 an extractor gun?

Yes, it is an extractor gun and so is the 20g. I think I sent you pictures.

Wish someone would answer regarding the hunting ideas.

My Ideals are sensitive to feathers, leaves, etc. stuck between the barrel flats and action flat. The guns will lock up but with the trash, when fired the strike is weak and there'll be intermittent FTF until the the trash is cleared out. It doesn't take much to cause issues. I've had the same occur with A&D shotguns of English and Japanese origins. Moving through thick cover while woodcocking with the barrels broken open has invited the problem. It's all in the carry to prevent shells from falling out while walking with the gun open and shells in the chamber. Stock over the shoulder with barrels down and gripped keeps them in. It is better, and safer, to not load until a shot is imminent. You'll miss unexpected opportunities, but in the name of safety, that's a small price to pay. Carrying a roll of Scotch Tape may cause more problems than it's worth. Gil

I have a little 20 Ideal. I overcome the safety issue by using it when I am hunting alone. Gun loaded, closed and safety off. The grouse and the dog didn't care a bit.