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Forums10
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23 |
English BLE with Baker style ejectors is exceedingly difficult to open after firing. No issue when using snap caps. Causes?
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,981 Likes: 397
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,981 Likes: 397 |
Look at the cocking dogs and firing pin protrusion first. You should pretty much no slop between the dog and the tumbler when fired.
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23 |
Makes sense. Thanks. I was thinking about slow cocking after I posted.
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23 |
Right pin protrusion = .0585 Left pin protrusion = .0660
Right dog has no play. Left dog has a very small amount of play.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127 Likes: 1128
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127 Likes: 1128 |
.0660" seems like a lot. Seems I once learned that around .055" to .060" is where they should be. How about it Steve?
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,850 Likes: 150
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,850 Likes: 150 |
Snap caps won't always show the same effect as live fire. Snap caps (usually) have a plastic heavy spring loaded 'primer' or a hard nylon/delrin surface for the pin to hit. It doesn't really mimic a real primer with it's unforgiving after effect of the firing pin being punched into a metal surface. Then you're trying to pull the shell head accross it opening the gun before the pin is lifted from it.
I'd suspect the cocking linkage has slop in it somewhere,,either one side or both.
Easy way to quickly check for looseness is to UNLOAD the gun... Then dry fire (no snap cap) one bbl. Then hold the gun horizontal and unlatch the bbls. Let the bbls open and drop of their own weight which they will till the cocking mechanism engages. That engagement should be immediate to ensure the firing pin is started to be lifted off the fired shell so it does not drag and cause hard opening.
Many guns will show the bbl's will drop open quite some distance at the breech before that begins. That opening is the amt you have to drag the fired shell head upwards with the firing pin down hard against it still under mainspring pressure as the cocking linkage has not picked up yet. The fired shell will usually show a FP drag mark off of the primer cap because of it.
Try both sides separately, you'll get an idea of what's going on.
Some cure the annoying hard opening issue with reloads or certain factory ammo that happens to use harder primer cup matrl. The FP won't bury itself as deeply in the primer and is more easily dragged accross the shell as the gun is opened.
That can work, but it still doesn't fix the mechanical problem in the gun.
I was always in the .045/.055 firing pin protrusion camp. Don't know where or who taught me that but that's what I've always used.
What ever it is make sure the tip is rounded nicely, no sharp points or chips and remember that even if the protrusion is .060 that doesn't mean the pin will indent the primer .060. But it could cause problems with a punched primer or the tip hanging up the mechanism when closing the gun depending on the style, ect.
I wouldn't suspect the ejector mechanism as the gun opens easily after 'firing' with the snap caps. It just doesn't when live fired. Seems either way a problem in there would show no matter how the hammers were dropped. But it wouldn't be a bad thing to take a look an clean them up. If you have them off of the forend,,leave them off and try live fire as an extractor gun and see if the hard opening is still there. If it is and probably will be,,then at least you've eliminated the ejectors as a source.
Lots of things to consider.,,Take one at a time or you're just going in circles never knowing what's helping and what may be un-doing your work.
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23 |
Thank you. Sounds like a loose dog and a long pin, on the same side, would add up to a problem like mine. Ill work through it. If the solution ends up requiring adding material somewhere, I do know a micro welder who can help.
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 144 Likes: 5
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 144 Likes: 5 |
Probably totally unrelated. But, had the same problem with an AyA boxlock and Winchester white box factory ammo with steel heads. A switch to brass-headed ammo and the problem went away. A friend with a Beretta SXS had the same experience with the same ammo.
Good luck!
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23 |
Im shooting Winchester AA and Remington Nitro 27 reloaded hulls, with Win209 primers, reloaded on a MEC 600 JR press.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 734 Likes: 22
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 734 Likes: 22 |
Stop using Winchester primers. Try Remington.
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23 |
The recipe I use calls for Win209s. The Nitro hulls were in use when I first tried the gun. Shot the AA hulls yesterday, and it was better overall, but still not consistent. Sometimes easy to open, sometimes as difficult as it was with the Nitros.
Havent touched the pin protrusion or the dogs.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 71
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 71 |
If its not the cases check that the cam is not loose .
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23 |
Which surface of the dog should have material added to it to eliminate the wiggle: surface that contacts the hammer, or the other end where it interfaces the iron?
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 71
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 71 |
Can you please be a little more precise ? Possible photo of the part . Building up parts is not always as simple as it may seem and will depend on what is the basic problem . Building up the wrong end or in the wrong place can have a knock on effect and cause more problems .
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 972 Likes: 23 |
Its all articulated in the thread. One side of the gun is slow to cock, because there is wiggle with the cocking dog. I need to eliminate the wiggle, and was what surface of the cocking dog to add material to, and then refit.
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