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Joined: Apr 2018
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Sidelock
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Howdy folks. Someone in another thread mentioned Cherry's Fine Guns, so on a lark I poked around their inventory.

Lo and behold, they have several fairly rough condition Hollenbeck drillings in inventory. I have a later (Royal Gun Co marked) 12/.30-30 Hollenbeck that has some action issues, so I thought this might be a good time to get a parts gun. I don't intend to rob parts from it, but to simply use it as a pattern to make some new bits for my other one.

It was listed as having some pitting and a replacement stock, but decent mechanics.

Not listed were that the rib is separating from the barrels and the lockup is loose as a goose. I probably ought not try to shoot it, which is disappointing, since I ordered .32-40 dies and brass already, along with some fiber wads and such for loading some black powder shotshells (this one is damascus, I think, though the pattern isn't visible through the gray).

Anyway, I remember someone around here having access to the 3-Barrel Gun Company ledger. If it's no trouble, would you be willing to share whatever information you have on serial #1236?

Thanks! Here are some photos.






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O-grade, 12 x 12 x .32-40, 28-inch steel barrels, full pistol grip, 7 pounds 11 ounces, 14 1/8 x 1 5/8 x 2 3/4. No record of it being shipped or sold, but it appears Rudy Kostelecky, Rudy's Gun Shop, Cantonment, Florida, sold it to Ed W. Stifel, no date entered, but probably in the 1960s or 70s.

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Interesting your mentioning this gun had an undisclosed loose rib. I purchased an A Grade Three Barrel Gun Co side x side from Cherry's; and when received it also featured a loose barrel rib in spite of the fact that the seller had the gun in hand as I asked detailed questions to include barrel condition. The loose rib in the above pic, although fairly obvious is not glaring; this A Grade gun featured a big glob of solder along the last two inches of the rib near the muzzle that a blind man would notice. When questioned the seller said he'd simply "overlooked" this issue and offered a refund; no discount. The gun was in overall good condition otherwise so I elected to keep the gun because examples are so rare (when have you seen one marked TBG Co?), but I no longer completely trust Cherry's for an honest assessment. Now to be honest myself, I later purchased an O Grade TBG Co drilling 12x12x32-40 from Cherry's that I was advised had issues and didn't function at all, and did so as the parts alone were worth more than I'd paid. When received and examined I found the right side cocking rod/hammer unit broken and the cocking "ear" broken off the left side of the cocking roll in the barrel lug. Figured it as a wall hanger for sure; then wonder of wonders, the very next week see on eBay a listing that included all internal parts for a Hollenbeck (these were Royal Gun Co parts) action to include a barrel lug complete with cocking roll. Someone had done something to blow up this barrel set and had blown the lug completely off in the process. I won the auction for $50 and Buck Hamlin worked his magic to put this TBG Co. gun back in service.

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Well, this gun is in pretty poor shape, so I think I'm going to try to resolder the rib and refinish it myself.

If that goes well, then I'll send it somewhere to have the lockup tightened. I'm not comfortable trying that myself.

If it goes poorly, then I still have parts to get my other Hollenbeck 100% functional.

Now, here's a question for you, since you seem to have a good many Hollenbecks:

I've only handled 4 of them (two of which I now own), and every single one has had action issues of some sort or another. The most glaring being that the rifle barrel safety usually doesn't work (if it's even supposed to, more on that later), nor the disconnector whatever-it-is on the front trigger (assuming there is one; more on that later also). Even this parts gun where all of that *does* (supposedly) actually work has issues with the breakopen lever not staying to the right when the action is opened.

Have yours been as problematic? I wonder if the small parts aren't properly hardened or something.

Additionally, how is the front trigger on these things supposed to work? To clarify:

On my 12/.30-30, the safety has no effect on the rifle. To fire the rifle, you leave the safety on, cock the under-lever, and pull the front trigger. Or hold the lever, pull the trigger, and gently decock it to safe it. If the front trigger is squeezed while the safety is off and the rifle lever is cocked, the rifle hammer falls, then after a bit more pull-though so does the shotgun.

On this 12/.32-40, the safety prevents the rifle from firing when it is cocked. However, if you take the safety off and squeeze the trigger, both the rifle and the shotgun fire *at the same time*, which is not desirable.

Perhaps *this* gun has the problem and my .30-30 is fine. I had assumed that there was some kind of disconnector arrangement inside there that locked the shotgun striker back while the rifle was cocked, requiring a trigger release to reset after the rifle had been fired, and that the safety was supposed to safe everything, even the rifle.

But I haven't had either of them apart to take a gander yet. How do yours work?

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Also, thank you Researcher, for the info. I really appreciate it!

"Steel barrels" probably means a non-damascus twist steel, right?

Last edited by Mr. Polecat; 06/19/19 05:55 PM.
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The barrel column in the old factory ledger uses K for Krupp, D for Damascus and S for the plain steel used on the 0-Grade shotgun barrels. The flyer introducing the O-grade listed it as being available with Damascus or fluid steel barrels, as did the 1907 Three Barrel Gun Co. catalog. By the 1908 Three Barrel Gun Co. catalog the 0-grade is said to be made with Crescent Steel Barrels.

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Mr. Polecat, just curious, what is your source for the 32-40 brass? Is the headstamp 32-40?

thanks, Robert.

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Mr. PC
The first thing I need to do is correct a misconception, I
don't "have a good many Hollenbecks". I own three and two of those are the rarer side x sides as those are my primary interest. I became interested in Hollenbeck double guns because of my interest in Frank Hollenbeck and the Syracuse Arms
Company. Mr. Hollenbeck designed The Hollenbeck/Syracuse Arms gun, the Baltimore Arms gun, and the Hollenbeck Gun Company gun; so I've studied all three designs because of his association with each and thus own representative examples.

"I've only handled 4 of them (two of which I now own), and every single one has had action issues of some sort or another. The most glaring being that the rifle barrel safety usually doesn't work (if it's even supposed to, more on that later), nor the disconnector whatever-it-is on the front trigger (assuming there is one; more on that later also). Even this parts gun where all of that *does* (supposedly) actually work has issues with the break open lever not staying to the right when the action is opened."

Although I've seen and handled several Hollenbeck drillings, I only own the O Grade drilling referenced above; and since it had mechanical issues when received, it's the also the only example I've ever disassembled (which does not qualify me as an expert!). Now I could be wrong, but there is no safety for the rifle barrel. As to the "disconnector" I'm at a loss, but the rifle barrel is simple to operate; one simply pushes the lever ahead of the trigger guard to cock the hammer, then pulls the safety slide rearward and she's ready to fire. According to a Hollenbeck catalog, the rifle hammer "can be let down the same as any hammer gun". To be honest I've only dry-fired mine since Buck worked his magic but to un-cock the rifle barrel I make sure the safety slide is all the way to the rear (or on safe), hold the rifle cocking lever with my left thumb, then pull the front trigger to release spring tension. At that point, and using my thumb for control, I simply allow the cocking lever to slowly move back to the un-cocked position. As to the opening lever, I suspect you have a weak top lever spring.

"Have yours been as problematic? I wonder if the small parts aren't properly hardened or something."

Don't have the experience to speak to that question; but can tell you there are at least several minor parts differences between the early Three Barrel Gun Co models and the later Royal Gun Co marked models.

"Additionally, how is the front trigger on these things supposed to work?"

Unless the rifle barrel is cocked, the front and rear triggers work exactly like double triggers would function on any other double gun, as does the automatic safety slide. Again, to fire the rifle barrel cock the rifle barrel hammer by pushing the thumb piece all the way forward; then pull the safety slide all the way to the rear (which would be the "safe" position if shooting the shotgun barrels). The rifle barrel will then shoot when the front trigger is pulled.

"On my 12/.30-30, the safety has no effect on the rifle."

That's true, the rifle function was never designed with a safety as we find on standard double guns. All Cherry's ads for these Hollenbeck drillings state that the rifle barrel safety doesn't work. Obviously whoever drafted that ad knew squat about Hollenbeck drillings; Hollenbeck never intended the rifle barrel have a safety.

"To fire the rifle, you leave the safety on, cock the under-lever, and pull the front trigger. Or hold the lever, pull the trigger, and gently de-cock it to safe it. If the front trigger is squeezed while the safety is off and the rifle lever is cocked, the rifle hammer falls, then after a bit more pull-though so does the shotgun."

That's exactly the way the gun is designed.

"On this 12/.32-40, the safety prevents the rifle from firing when it is cocked. However, if you take the safety off and squeeze the trigger, both the rifle and the shotgun fire *at the same time*, which is not desirable."

Clearly a monkey has been hacking on the mechanism of this gun so who knows what may have been damaged or screwed up? As FYI I had Buck remove the safety slide from my O Grade as I prefer a manual safety (I did save the part however).

"Perhaps *this* gun has the problem and my .30-30 is fine. I had assumed that there was some kind of disconnector arrangement inside there that locked the shotgun striker back while the rifle was cocked, requiring a trigger release to reset after the rifle had been fired, and that the safety was supposed to safe everything, even the rifle."

Your 30/30 is working correctly

"But I haven't had either of them apart to take a gander yet. How do yours work?"

I took mine apart in order to see how similar the shotgun action was to the Syracuse and Baltimore guns, but I have little ability to perform repairs. Assuming you wish to salvage this gun my advice would be to send it to a gun mechanic as I did with mine to Buck Hamlin. As to the loose rib, some gunsmiths won't relay ribs on drillings as it is very difficult to properly align the rifle barrel. If you choose to salvage this gun you may wish to purchase a reprint of the early Hollenbeck catalog listed for sale on Gunbroker (Item #817337341) as it contains several diagrams of the Hollenbeck mechanism.

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Originally Posted By: RedofTx
Mr. Polecat, just curious, what is your source for the 32-40 brass? Is the headstamp 32-40?

thanks, Robert.


Ventura Munitions, "Ventura Heritage" brand. They don't sell the brass by itself, unfortunately. These are light cowboy loads with a 180gn RNFP. The headstamp reads "VH" over "32-40 WIN". They're over $2 per round though, ufff.

I am very pedantic about having my headstamps match their actual caliber if possible though. Someday, after I am mauled by a bear and my sister's children inherit all of my junk, I wouldn't want one of them trying to stuff a resized 38-55 case into a 38-55 and having a bad day. frown

Last edited by Mr. Polecat; 06/20/19 07:09 PM.
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Originally Posted By: topgun
(many things)


Thank you, sir. I am beginning to think that I've been sold something very broken that wasn't worth the price paid, and I ought to send it back....

Then again, if it's that broken, it makes me less afraid of really screwing something up if I try to fix it myself. I am sure that the gunsmith fees would be at least 5x more than the gun is worth, and the bores aren't the greatest anyway.

I've been interested in combination guns since I was a kid with a Savage 24, and that led to drillings later. As a born-and-raised-and-stayed-here West Virginian, the Hollenbeck drillings especially interest me.

Last edited by Mr. Polecat; 06/20/19 07:13 PM.
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