doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Junghans & Kriegeskorte 16ga x 8x57JR drilling

I've always wanted a 16ga, either an auto-5 or a SxS.

So I just won this thing. Probably paid a little too much... https://www.gunbroker.com/item/815691297 (edit: there, that's the right link!)



I guess I'll have to ream the shotgun chambers to 70mm, but that's no problem. I don't have the ream itself, but I have everything else I'd need to do that, and I figure I could probably sell the ream to the next guy for 80% and not be out of too much.

As for the rifle, what do you suppose is the cheapest way to load for it? The S&B 8.57JR is out of stock everywhere I've checked, so it looks like I'll be getting some brass and dies and rolling my own.

I figure I can just use 8x57JRS brass, even though it's .323 (or something) instead of .318. To me, that means the cases are basically identical other than the headstamp, unless I am confused.

As for bullets, the .318 offerings are really expensive and not available in much variety. I figured I might get a custom swage die (I think the Lees are fairly inexpensive) and push .32WS bullets through it. Or I could try paper-patching .308 bullets, although I've read that's pretty hard on the rifling.

Another advantage to the swage die is that I could swage non-jacketed .32 ACP bullets (or a 00 buckshot pellet) too, and work up a small game / plinker load, assuming I could get it to shoot anywhere near the point of impact of the full power stuff.

What are yourall's opinions of the gun, and ideas on the above? Did I pay too much? I've never heard of the maker, but it looks well made.....

There are a couple cracks in the wrist, but I think I can fix that (at least insofar as stopping them from spreading, assuming someone hasn't already glued them and pinned them from the other side).

One thing I am really hmm-hawing about is, I'd like to use a red dot sight on it for hunting, so I'll have to have someone tap a couple of blind holes in the rib so I can put a small section of weaver rail on it. Which I hate to do, but I'd rather do it to this one than to my Hollenbeck. Although I do see what appears to be a grub screw of some sort in front of the rear sight, so maybe that can present a mounting option, if I can figure out how to keep it stable with only one screw.

I think I ought to figure out how rare/collectible this gun is before I do that (or ream the shotgun chambers), though. Any ideas?

Thanks, gentlemen. I appreciate your advice and opinions.

Forget the reamer & order from Polywad, RST or similar. It will last you a lifetime.

Yeah, roll your own. 0.318" - 0.321" bullet are plentiful just determine which your solid projectile tube fancies most.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I typoed 76mm instead of 70mm! Sorry! It's currently 2 9/16, and I only intend to ream to 2 3/4. I don't think there's even any such thing as a 3" 16ga! Haha.

Looks like I see a Sauer & Sohn stamp or two, so they either applied some effort on the Blitz lock dreiling or were sourced from components. Also the tubes were sourced from Carl Gottieb H�nel or one of its subcontractors, Gebhard Helmuthhauser / Gebhard Helmuth�user.

13 gramme / 200 grain bullets are quite easy to source. The 13 gramme bullet & 88-8 point to the smaller diameter on the 8X57R/360?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I think there is or was but I'd hold w/ the 65mm and have less recoil, although in a dreiling it might be quite as >>felt<< as w/ a double.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I was looking at just getting 16ga hulls and trimming to 2 9/16. But I don't think my load-all will do that length (or 2.5" either). So it seems like kind of a toss-up, between the cost of a reamer (which I could recoup much of I think) or the cost of a whole new shotgun press (rather than just a 16ga conversion kit).

I guess that's kind of silly of me, considering what I paid for the gun, but a penny saved and all that. Heh.

Does your advice stem from a desire to not alter the gun, or just from an ease-of-doing thing?

Thanks!

Duel purpose statement as not to alter & ease-of-operation as that was the way it was designed. But in the end the chambers might be a little long & 2.5mm isn't a big jump.

I think you got a great deal if the tubes are clean & the triggerplate action w/ Blitz locks functions well.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Cheers,

Oh, and a date: post 1912 & pre-1923 from the images I see. Only issue I see is that the head of the stock has cracked but has been pinned.

Cheers,


Raimey
rse

Axel has a dissertation on the 8x57IR and this may be a portion of it:

"Apparently the changeover was completed 1926. Jon Speed's book "Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles", page 274, shows a table of cartridge dimensions agreed upon July 23, 1926 by the German arms and ammo manufacturers association. It shows new//old designations: 8x57IR // M88/8 mit Rand or M88B, 8x57I // M88N, 8x51 // M88/8 kurz or H, 8x57IS // M88/8S.
The German M1888 cartridge was loaded with a .318" 14.7gramme = 227grs (roughly 15gramme)round nose bullet. This was the standard/only hunting load up to WW1. The military S cartridge used a .323" 10g = 154gr pointed bullet that never became popular as a sporting load. In WW1 the German army changed to the sS = heavy pointed bullet for machine gun use, bullet weight 12,7g =196gr. This became the standard weight for both the I and S bores close to WW2. Up until after WW2 the I = .318" bullet was regarded as the sporting type, while the S-bore was the "military" one, used on Sporting rifles mostly for the "Magnum" loads to relieve pressures. Only the 1940 proof law introduced min-max dimensions and the strict differentiating between I and S bores. So take any rifle proofed for a 15gramme bullet to be an I bore. "

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=300554&page=1

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

You know, I don't think you have the 8X57IR but the 8X57R/360, which I'm currently loading.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Uhoh. That's going to be really difficult to find brass for, isn't it? How do you tell the difference from the markings in the pictures, just out of curiosity? I'm having difficulty finding information on this gun.

Well, I've just been down the path you are on if indeed you are a custodian of a dreiling chambered in 8X57R/360. Actually, if you use the lengthy version of 38-55(I think Starline has them for say 16 cents?) easy to convert but are just a few mm short & you just have to extend the bullet out. Other than that you need some 360 2 1/4" brass, but those are typically converted from something.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I'll keep my fingers crossed that it's 8x57JR then, hehe. I was thinking like the 8-88 marking indicated the Mauser case rather than the 360. Oops!

From the cartridge drawings, it looks like I can mic the rim recess once I have the gun in my possession, and figure out for sure based on that.

Leave the chambers as is and get a case of 2.5" RST. How much do you plan on shooting this drilling with shotshells anyway. And the old wood will thank you also.

I see a caliber marking on the rifle barrel of 7.7 mm / 57. This is a way to small a bore for the 8x57R/360 which is nominally a 9 -9.3 mm size, I forget its actual bullet size.

The military 8mm was nominally a 7.92 mm or .312" bore with grooves for either the .318 or .323S bullets. 7.7mm = .303" which likely simply the 8x57IR cut with deep grooves, not unusual on hunting rifles.

As mentioned in another thread I have an 8x58R S&S with 172.28 gauge bores (.300"). Slugging its bore revealed a groove diameter of .321" while the bore itself measured just short of the next gauge step which would have been .310" or a 156.14 gauge.

I have a Miller & Val Greiss, Munchen hammer drilling chambered 16/16/9.3x72R. It was proofed 6 13 & is marked 8.8mm / 72. 8.8mm =.346".

9 - 9.3mm on a 8X57R/360? Many are in the 0.318" realm. 7,7 would have been the bore and increase to 8,1 with the rifling.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey;
Sorry, I got confused there. I was thinking the 8x57R/.360 was the 8x57JR case necked up to hold the larger bullet. You are right it is actually the old 9.3x57R case necked down to hold the .318" bullet.
The 9.3x57 case is a straight taper case similar to our .38-55 case but longer. Necking it down the take the 8mm bullet gives it a slight bottleneck.

I read somewhere that the 7.7 indicated the J-bore of .318, which along with the 8-88 (aka 8mm M/88?) marking and the 57 led me to assume an 8x57JR rimmed Mauser chambering.

But I reaaaaally don't know much. I sure hope it's not something that's too weird to find brass for. I passed over a lower-priced drilling in 8x72r Sauer, but that brass would have been easier to find than the 8x57/360. Doh.

Honestly, probably more than the rifle. We shoot a good many clays, and my favorite hunting/eating is tree rats. Mmmmmmm, tree rats.

I don't think my Load-All will do 2.5" shells, but I may be able to modify it to do so by drilling a couple of new holes in the handle and repositioning it. Hmmmm.

It is quite easy to convert a Lee load all to 2 1/2". I did one a number of years ago and eventually bought a Mec 600 and installed a 2 1/2" kit. I believe I gave the converted Lee to someone here at double gun.

I had a piece of 1/4x1 1/4 aluminum bar stock and placed it under the shell holders and shortened the crimp sleeve.

Now that's interesting & I've always wanted to load 16-65mm in bulk w/ my own choice of shot.

Regarding the calibre; as Ford says chamber cast, chamber cast w/ CerroSafe.....

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Here's a pic of the converted LEE.

[img:center][URL=http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Browndaug/media/005_zpsf4e1c36b.jpg.html][[/img]

A chamber cast is definitely the way to go. If it is the 8/57R/.360 it will be a bottleneck case but a smaller diameter than the 8x57IR. Both Brass & Dies are I believe available for it. The brass could also be made from shortened 9.3x72R cases. Power is I believe similar to the old .32-40 Ballard/Win in the smokeless loads. It should be suitable for taking a Whitetail with a well-placed shot. Even the black powder loading of the .32-40 took a pile of them in the past.

Should be a Fun Gun.

I see a stamp of >>FA<< closer to the forend hanger, possibly that of one of the Boys Adamy. But there is a stamp above the >>7,7mm<< stamp that I can't discern.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

My Dad had an Uncle that was a logger/woodsman & he actually shot deer in the ear w/ a 0.22" and stacked them up like cord-wood.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I don't want to make Raimey have a heart attack, but you don't need a chamber cast when there are two choices of chambering. A hand loader usually has a dial or electronic caliper, and it can be used. Measure the chamber diameter just ahead of the rim recess. If it is 8x57R/360, it will measure around .427"; and if 8x57IR,around .465". There is enough difference to be pretty clear. I vote for 8x57IR due to the 8-88 mark. If you fire a cartridge in the drilling and don't size the case, what ever bullet diameter that will easily fit into the case can be used in loading for it. For sure you can use .318", it is pretty likely use .321" and possible for .323". You can easily make .318" bullets from .321" or .323" or in between. If you don't have a caliper, you can tell the 8x57IR from 8x57R/360 by comparing the chamber to a 30-30 case and 30-06 case.
Mike

If it's a choice between 8x57JR and 8x57R-360, it looks to me like the rims are significantly different sizes. I figure I'll just measure the rim recess, order my brass based on that, and then fire one with a light fire-forming load and no bullet (assuming I have a shell holder the right size to prime it), to make sure the chamber is really what we think it is. I figure it will be, but just in case........

Edit: Yeah, what Der Ami said! I should read all the posts before replying..........

Thanks for the advice on the load-all!

Now for the worst part: Waiting on the gun to arrive! Haha.

If you're curious about the markings from a scholarly perspective, I can post some high rez photos here once the gun arrives.

Sure, in anything scholarly, I always have interest.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Sage advice so always carry a 30-30 case(possibly re-formed without the shoulder) & a 30-06 case and you will always know.

Ford & I have a sidebar conversation ongoing on the pitfalls of a wax cast & a CerroSafe cast. And I have been in the pits as of late.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

You did not pay too much for it.

The thing you should look at - hard - is the condition of the stock head. To get all the workings in the action into the head of that stock, the cheeks are left pretty thin. My drilling, of similar design, had a disconcerting hollow sound when one tapped on the cheeks. I had a gunsmith remedy that.


The minimal wood in the stock head then and it's age (approx. 100 years now) militate in turn that you stick to low-recoil loads. Putting 2 3/4 through 2 1/2, regardless of the pressure issues, will increase your recoil. And that won't do your stock any good. As you note, there are already some cracks showing, which tells me someone in this gun's past didn't heed my advice. I don't see pressures being an issue b/c the barrels on this gun are likely stout. It's made by Germans....


BTW, it's regulated for a 13 gram steel-jacketed bullet. That's the "StMG"; 13 grams is 200.97 grains. Forget about steel jackets. You can get, or cast, 200 grain bullets in all the 8 mm calibers you want. With cast, you can assemble nice mellow loads and shoot all day.


Congratulations, and welcome to wonderful world of drillings.

I'm leaning heavily toward 8X57R/360........ Till a chamber cast.....

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Pep� Le Pew, did the mail run today by chance?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Junghans & Kriegeskorte in Suhl was founded in circa 1919 and they had buildings in Stuttgart-Hedelfingen, Solingen, Timbach, Olten & ?. Max Kriegeskorte was the CEO of the Stuttgart building which was founded in 1910 & Robert Kriegeskorte may have been a partner? But Robert Kriegeskorte migrated to the Suhl building in circa 1919. All touted the sold Luxuswaffen.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

The company still exists as Krico, so I might send them an email once the gun gets here and see if they still have the old records and can tell me anything about it.

No, I haven't gotten it yet, hehe. I'm one of those slow-pokes that sends money orders instead of using the plastic, because of that 3%.

I expect it'll arrive sometime next week.

Well how 'bout that.


>>The KRICO History
Krico is the brand name of the German firm of Krieqeskorte GmbH. The company has a history dating back to 1878. The founder Robert Kriegeskorte was born in 1853 in the town of R�nsahl. After his schooling he became a trainee salesman with the local gunpowder company of Cramer & Buchholz. At the end of his apprenticeship he became the company�s representative for southern Germany and he moved to Esslingen near Stuttgart.



In 1878 he founded the company of Junghans & Kriegeskorte in Esslingen am Zollberg that was a wholesaler of gunpowder, dynamite, ammunition, and arms. He built a powder depot for his business but met with resistance from the local population and the local authorities who found the storage of gunpowder far too dangerous. Eventually Kriegeskorte moved his business to the place then known as Cannstatt that today forms part of Stuttgart. It is apparent from material from the archives that the business flourished.



By the beginning of 1918 Max Kriegeskorte � the founder�s son � took over the running of the business. After World War I the company had difficulties because both the trading and production of weapons was banned. For this reason Krico turned its attention to the fabrication of other steel products.



In the period between 1925 and 1928 Kriegeskorte produced cycle frames. Krico began branch operations in both Suhl and Solingen but these were closed after a few years because they were not profitable.



In 1928 the Junghans & Kriegeskorte company was converted to a private company and since then has been known as Kriegeskorte & Co. GmbH. Max Kriegeskorte and his wife expanded the business with considerable drive and energy.



Max began comprehensive mechanization of the production in 1939 but this quickly came to an end with the outbreak of World War ll. it had been intended for both Max�s sons Rolf and Arndt Kriegeskorte � to take over the helm, with Rolf as the technical engineer and Arndt as the commercial director. The war put paid to these plans, as Arndt was killed in 1944 and Rolf was severely wounded.



Max Kriegeskorte himself died in June 1945.



The business continued at the end of the war in the hands of Rolf and his mother, Emma Kriegeskorte. There were considerable problems because the production of weapons and ammunition was forbidden by the Allies. It was therefore not possible for the company to continue in its previous trade. Kriegeskorte decided to make household products.



In 1947 Krico was given permission to make slaughter firearms and this was followed in 1949 by permission to make starting pistols.



It was not until 1950 that the company was allowed to make air rifles and the following year they were granted the approval for small caliber rifles



The production of hunting rifles started in 1954 with Model 400 for .22 Hornet and .222 Rem. calibers. Following this Krico was kept busy converting former military Mausers to sporting and hunting use.



The company developed models 600 and 700 for heavier calibers in 1963.



The son Dieter Kriegeskorte, joined the firm in 1967, followed in 1976 by his brother Arndt as technical director. The company was split into the holding company Kriegeskorte &. Co. and the operational company Krico GmbH in 1980.



Arndt Kriegeskorte acquired the entire share stock of the company in 1986 and the following year he moved the business to F�rth in Bavaria. The company entered into a joint venture with Dynamit Nobel to develop the Rottweil Paragon over-and-under shotgun in 1988 but this project stagnated and after a few years proved to be unprofitable. The resulting losses made the bankruptcy of Kriegeskorte GmbH unavoidable.



Krico moved to Vohburg-lrsching on the Donau, south of Ingolstadt in Bavaria in 1994 � Here the company was slowly rebuilt so that in 1997 Krico introduced its new Model 902 bolt-action repeating rifle. ArndtKriegeskorte designed this weapon that was produced in ltaly by CD-Europe.



In 1999 Krico merged in Norway with the well-known Kongsberg Small Arms Company.



Out of the reason that the market for repeating rifles became too small to become profitable the production of the Model 902 has been stopped in 2005.



Since the year 2006 the Kriegeskorte GmbH is specializing in export, import and storage of hunting and sporting weapons.<<

https://krico.eu/historie/?language=en

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Junghans must have been the B�chsenmacher & Kriegeskorte flew on the weapons wings of Junghans' gunmaker master sheepskin.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Just back from the FFL. Yay.

This thing is really good. Tight as a bank vault. Clean. Zero pitting. Bores like a mirror. Very sharp engraving. It's way better than the seller's description. I am pleased with this one!

It's a very svelte little gun. Much lighter and handier than I expected.

I think it is most certainly 8x57JR rather than 8x57R/360NE. The rim recess is somewhere in the neighborhood of .510-.520ish, whereas I believe the 360NE was somewhere in the .6 area.

My brass is due to arrive tomorrow, though, so I'll know for sure then.

Haven't slugged the bore yet. Tomorrow.







Here are some better (hopefully) photos you wanted, of the markings. If there's anything unclear that I ought to take another of, please let me know.

Is that a Pole-Cat in the 1st image?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

That cat loves getting in gun pictures.

She's 19, but still whups the snot out of the 2 year old male one. Healthy countryside living, I reckon.

The 8X57R/360 case Rim diameter should be in the vicinity of 0.483" - 0.485"

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Ohhhh, the plot thickens then. Looks like I found bad data for the 360NE. But everything on the internet is supposed to be true! =:3

Referencing the CIP drawings for each cartridge:
https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-ii/8-x-57-ir-en.pdf
https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-ii/tabiical-en-page33.pdf

It looks like the 8x57JR rim is ~.524, while the R360 is ~.488 as you say. This thing is definitely larger than .488.

But it was my shotgun ammunition that arrived today. The 8x57JR brass and the 16ga load-all conversion parts are tomorrow. Aaaaah, the wait!

I did do some "function testing" (chores, chores) on the shotgun barrels, though. Hoooo boy those clays were poofing.

Carefully posed ammo pr0n shot, including some ridiculously expensive properly-headstamped .32-40 Ballard that I can't shoot and reload with the Holy Black until I fix that other gun. Grumble.

Is the rim diameter for the 8X57 IR 13.5mm?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

13.32, according to those CIP drawings.

My brass came today. It's most definitely 8x57JR.

I slugged the bore, but I put my caliper down somewhere after I measured the rim recess and now I can't find it. Ah the life of a hoarder. Grumble. :P

Well lovely then. Which 13 gramme bullet are you going to choose?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Just a caution, but reaming safely will be decided by the thickness of the barrels just past the present forcing cone. I have seen some barrels which just did not measure enough thickness to risk the pressure, and other who had plenty of "meat." If you are lucky, then it makes all the difference in the loads you can accommodate, but for peace of mind, have it measured. Of course, lower pressures always do the gun a favor. I would recommend a standard short forcing cone if you do lengthen the bores, as a long forcing cone in my experience will always lower the pattern or shot (or strike of a slug) 6 inches in every drilling I ever used one in. In one case I did it on purpose because the gun shot high. Glad there is no pitting--one less thing to worry about. Great find for the price! Keep the hinge greased and it may outlast you. Congratulations!

I'm going to leave the chambers alone. I've bought a case of 2.5" RST ammunition, wads, and a 16ga conversion for my load-all.

I'm not sure yet.

Woodleigh makes a 200gn .318 round nose that would be appropriate, but they are extremely expensive.

The 200gn Lapua D166 (.311) that I load for my M39 could probably be paper-patched to .318, but I hate to do that for a number of reasons. And it's a FMJ anyway.

There's a guy on another forum that's offered some powder-coated cast bullets that mic about .318, but I'm not sure I want to rely on that always being available (I don't cast, myself).

It would only take a couple of boxes of the Woodleigh bullets to pay for a swage die to size various of the .323 options down to .318. Probably the Speer 200gn flat base SP. This is probably the most cost effective option over the life of me and the gun.

We'll see, though. I still haven't figured out where I laid my caliper! Heh.

Mr. Polecat,
It not hard to size .323"( cup and core, not solid or partition) bullets to .318", or anything between. This would give you great flexibility. Check with LEE for affordable bullet sizing dies.
Mike

Ford is the below it or do you have the product number?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018523537/lee-bullet-sizing-die-kit

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I would highly recommend slugging that bore & seeing just what the groove diameter is before investing much in the bullets. If the grooves run a bit oversize it may well be that .32 WS bullets would be a fit without any manipulation. My old 8x58R Sauer which was technically made for the .318" bullet has grooves which measure .321", exactly the size of the .32 WS bullets. These of course only weigh 170 grains rather than the 200 grains (13 gram).

The Rem Corelock bullet is a good bullet & should not prove overly destructive even at the enhanced velocities from the 8x57J over the .32 WS. Should be able to work up a fine deer load for it IF it should prove workable.

Miller:

Do you mean 0.318"? Those 8X58 1/2R - 170 grain bullets are just gems. Even @ 11 grammes they were the missing piece of the puzzle I needed on an going load development effort.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Yes indeed .318, just a typo. I have edited the post. Thanks for catching that Raimey. I have mentioned it before but my barrel is actually marked 172.28 / 59. Except for that one silly little mm (remember those old cigarette Ads), a chamber cast revealed it to be dimensionally an 8x58R Sauer chamber As I said though the groove diameter per slug measures.321" with the bore going about .309", just shy of the next plug gauge size of 156.14 (.310").

Raimey,
That is the item, but you would have to go to Lee instead of Midway, to get a special diameter; or if you have the ability, you can buy the next smaller size and open it up. Take note of 2-piper's comments. Experience shows that a good number of so called "J bore" rifles can use .321" bullets, and some even .323". It is always good to find the groove diameter of the barrel, but it is more important to determine what diameter bullet will easily enter the neck of a fired case( this really shows the bullet can be released, not "jammed" in the chamber). The new "Flex-Tip" bullet for 32 Win. Special has received good press and may be worth a try, even though it only weighs 165 grains. The Remington 8mm Mauser bullet is .3215" and is useable in my 8x57R/360 with .318" grooves. Note: 8x58R S&S and 8x58 1/2R S&S are just two different names for the same cartridge.
Mike

For the 8X48R S&S, 8X58 1/2 R S&S and the 8X57R/360 I have a substitute for the Rottweill Nr. 5 but I am still in search of info for the T 1910 & W 1920 powders.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Der Ami;
Good comments there. Trying the bullet in the fired case is very good advice. I recall reading an article in the Rifleman many years ago on this subject. Seems a Gentleman had purchased a pre '68 model 70 Win whey they first became available in .243 Win. He had purchased a lot of 100 new brass for it. He had used this rifle for hunting deer, done a good amount of varmint shooting, Groundhogs mostly as I recall & a bit of informal range shooting. He had worked up a Conservative load & had reloaded these cases many, many times. A few had begun to develop split necks, so he decided to scrap the entire lot & start over.

He got the chance to buy a lot of National Match brass for the 7.62 Nato round (.308) which was, of course, the parent case for the .243.
Even though his load was conservative he dropped his powder charge by a grain or so & using the same bullets, loaded up some for trial. First few shots went well & then one round took the rifle apart. He sent it to the NRA for evaluation (I Doubt they would even do this service now) & they determined the brass in the necks had thickened in being sized down to where they were being wedged in to the chamber neck & could not expand so produced excessive pressure, this one was just more than the gun could stand.

That is indeed extremely good advice you gave to always check the fit of the bullet to be used in the neck of the fired brass prior to sizing it.

Put about 200 shells through the gun today, shooting clays, despite it being 90 degrees. First time I've really had it out in a significant way. The heat ended up overpowering the motor on my wobbler, heh. Hopefully there's no permanent damage!

I have to say, this thing is choked tiiiiiight.

But I am still trying to figure out what to do vis-a-vis sights, for hunting with it. My eyes aren't what they used to be. So to my thinking, this leaves me with 3 or 4 choices:

1. Have someone blind-tap a couple of shallow holes on the rib, to mount a section of 1913 rail to (assuming it wouldn't mess with the automatic rear sight flip-up action). If the rail was removed, the holes could be filled with a couple of blued grub screws, which would hopefully minimize the hit to the gun's collector value.

2. Have someone install claw mounts, and have them make a rail section of some sort that would engage the claw mounts (I'd prefer to use a red dot with a magnifier for hunting-time).

3. Have someone install a fold-down tang sight, but that probably wouldn't last me as I grow older and my vision continues to deteriorate.

4. Forget about it and don't hunt with the rifle barrel (which is my least favorite option).

To my thoughts, option #1 would be the smallest permanent alteration to the gun.

#2 would probably be the most "appropriate" from a historical perspective, although also probably the most expensive and also the largest permanent alteration. I 'spect it would also require a reblue, as I would imagine that soldering on the claw mounts ruins the finish... The reblue in particular makes me want to stay away from this option.

#3 would requite drilling the tang, which I definitely DO NOT want to do under any circumstances.

#4 violates my sensibilities, heh. But if the other options are too severe, then maybe this is the correct option.

What are yourall's thoughts on this? Are there any non-permanent/low-impact options that I'm forgetting about?

Mr.Polecat,
Swing mounts would be a little cheaper than claw mounts and modern ones come back to zero when removed and replaced. New England Custom Guns can do the work. Modern glue is often used now, to avoid soldering and rebluing. It will still be fairly expensive, though.
The chokes are tight, because it was made in the days of fiber wads, before shot collars/cups.
Mike

Hmm, been doing more reading. I don't think tapping the rib would stand up to the recoil; the rib would come loose.

It also looks like the pivot mounts won't work on a drilling, without blocking the view down the rib when the scope is unmounted? I dunno, that just seems to be what a couple places on the internet are saying.

It may be claw mounts or nothing.

Mr. polecat,
I have pivot mounts on a Sauer 3000 drilling and they do not block the view down the rib when the scope is unmounted.

Aha, that is very good to hear.

Thank you, sirs.

Mr. Polecat,
The swing mounts I am talking about are made for drillings. Check Ernst Apel Wuerzburg, or Recknagel mounts. Both companies have web sites and NECG uses their products.
Mike