doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Mystery rifle

This may be a trifle off-topic, but... can anyone identify this rifle?

https://sportingclassicsdaily.com/wp-con...oyote-skins.jpg

86 or 71 Winchester, but I'm guessing. It's not quite right. Hell of a big action. Bullards and Whitneys are big, but I'm interested to see what it turns out to be.

No lever, unless it got somehow eliminated from the photo.

I'd say that's most definitely a Winchester with a broken lever.

I am sure the lever is there. You can see the beginnings of it come back off of the trigger guard hole. Otherwise, I think it's just lost in the poor resolution of the photo.

My guess is 1886 Winchester deluxe carbine with half magazine and pistol grip.

'86 takedown?

It seems like a lot of rifle to use on coyotes. Maybe he trapped them and then simply hit them in the head with a club.

gotta agree with that.

You know those cartridges look pretty darn long and somewhat thin, almost bottlenecked. Maybe a little like a .38-72.

Looking again, I think Brent is right and there is a lever. Just one that is almost invisible for some reason. Then, note the bulge on the bottom of the action just in front of the trigger guard. I think that eliminates Winchester and Marlin, and makes the rifle a Bullard.

It is definitely not a Marlin.

I just googled up a RIA video of the Bullard, large-frame gun. I think that is what this is, but it's hard to be certain.

I'd like to find a huntable Bullard sometime.

Just guessing, but the shape of the action and hammer look all wrong for a Bullard.

Somethng is not right with all the proportions of the different things in the picture. When compared to the size of the pelts, that rifle and maybe other things in the picture could be smaller than seems on first appearances.

With the short magazine tube, non crescent appearing butt, maybe not a very large stature fellow for all sorts of reasons, I'd guess it's a special order Winchester '94 lineage rifle, and those shells might be 30-30's. Fun exercize, maybe his dad came in from the remote trapper cabin and told him, hey go stand on the horse and let's see if uncle Irv will take a picture.

I am not sure what it is, however I am looking at the forearm which does not appear to have a metal cap and also the barrel band. I am no lever gun expert at all but the forearm treatment may contain some clues as to the rifles identity.
In addition, there are no obvious indications of "photo-shopping", however in the age the photo was taken or indicated to be taken, photographic film was very slow requiring long exposure times. How did they get the horse with the man standing on his back, to stand still that long time? Just food for thought.

LA Huffman did it all the time. He captured buckin� broncs in action in the 1880�s.

I refuse to play the app game of uploading things to my phone to post a pic, but if anyone wants to see an action shot check this one out. Simply amazing:

https://dyn1.heritagestatic.com/lf?set=path%5B3%2F8%2F1%2F381026%5D%2Csizedata%5B850x600%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D

Or since I�m not even smart enough to post a link, google �L A Huffman Broncos�

whitney- whitney kennedy ???

Here is what I think happened.

This is a "staged picture"
The horse is not his, the pelts are not his
and the rifle is not his.
Often in the old times the photographer had
all the items, and I feed the lever is not on the
gun and the gun can not be made to fire.

Mike

p.s. sometimes EVEN the horses were stuffed props

Can't be a Whitney of any flavor. Their frame curves down to the root of the lever - semi Marlin like but different. That would be easily observable in this photo.

I'm convinced it is a Bullard. However, there is and interesting pin or bolt midway in side of the fore arm. That is pretty odd. The entire forearm looks odd and unlike anything that I know of. Perhaps it is a home-brew, Bubba half mag adaptation.

Whether the guy owns the horse, rifle, or pelts, it is still an interesting rifle and an interesting, if odd, photo.

There was another comment thinking it was a Bullard also, but it disappeared.

The reason I don't think it's a Bullard is because the Bullard action is lengthened because they fit in a sort of rolling breech block. That pushes the hammer way back on the tapering tang part of the receiver and the rolling block shows nearly as much as the hammer does. On this rifle, the hammer is down and is seated into receiver where it is full breech height. The trigger on this rifle is also in a common position just ahead of the main body of the hammer, on Bullards the trigger appears to be behind the hammer.

It could have been altered, but I think Bullard lever rifles usually have a steel forend cap, but not a barrel band which it looks like this rifle has. The hammer spur also has the look of how a Winchester one is shaped and angled. With the pistol grip stock, that looks checkered, likely a shotgun style buttplate, this rifle may be showing special order features and it wouldn't be out of the question that a short magazine was specified.

I don't know what it is, but it doesn't seem to have the typical Bullard lever rifle layout and proportions.

An additional mystery is what pistol butt is almost invisibly protruding from that holster.

Dan, I have stared at that holster and I can't even determine it is a pistol holster for sure. But what else could it be.

craigd, I spent some time flipping back and forth with bullard images and I think the trigger-hammer-lever orientation does fit with the Bullard. Plus the depth of the receiver relative to its apparent length looks right. I think the porportions are there.

As for the shotgun butt, they came lots of ways, including a double pronged Schuetzen, so that seems reasonable to me.

The forearm/barrel band, I agree, takes a lot of explaining.

The front sight looks right and it seems just a little too far back which is how I always think of Bullards.

I think I can see the proportion and layout differences that I tried to describe, but try as I might, I can not see the rolling breech block or a space that it would occupy. Basically, all Bullards show a distictive pretty symmetrical semi circle appearance that's formed by roughly half the rolling block contour and half the hammer contour.

On my screen, only the hammer shows and it seems to seat fully into the back of the receiver. No arguement from me, only a friendly discussion about the topic. There aren't many around, but they always seem to say quality, at least the ones I've seen. Good luck tracking one down.

I see where you are going. There is a fair bit of shadow in that photo, but you have a good point.

Still, I think it is even less likely to be a Marlin, Winchester, or Whitney. Ithaca made a small bore lever, but I am not aware of a large frame. Not a Savage or any Browning that I've ever seen. What lever rifle makers are we leaving out?

Based on the configuration of the forend w/ bbl band, button magazine & the front sight I think that rifle is a special order 1894.

I have a picture of a special order 1894 SRC that has the exact same style forend w/bbl band, button mag & sight configuration.

Also, both have the same relatively thin bbl & the slim, open pistol grip on the rifle in question looks like what is often seen on special order 1894 rifles.

Im not set up to post pictures but if someone who can will pm me I'll email the picture to you.

I'll post them if you send the me. My email is in my profile.

It's not a takedown, as the carbine forearm wont work as a takedown. It looks like it's a deluxe carbine since it's a checkered pistol grip stock with shotgun style buttplate. It looks like a 1894 Winchester to me.

While you are at it, look at the peice of clothing that seems wrap around his neck and cover his chest.

Picture of 1894 SRC/w button mag & forearm band sent to Brent.

I'm thinking the button mag w/ bbl band forend instead of the metal capped forend must have been an option offered by Winchester.

I think the w1894 people are winning Still doesn't look right proportionally, at least to me, and I don't understand that screw or whatever in the left side of the forearm. then again, nothing except a hardware store repairman explains that.

I think the proportions are off because the fellow might be a pretty small guy. One of the first things I noticed was his boot tie downs at his ankles, the right one seems to snug down on a pretty skinny looking leg. The screw sits low in the forearm and probably clears the magazine tube. It may just be a repair.

Back to proportions, I'd figure a coyote is a coyote more or less. Those pelts look wolf sized on that horse, probably some sort of pony, and if they were held up next to that guy or the rifle. I think smaller hands are holding the rifle.

Based on the pencil contour barrel, front sight and forend cap, I'm going to revise my guess just a bit to a Win. model 92 special order SRC. If they fit the rifle, those might be 32-20 shells in the belt loops, because I think 25-20's would look a tad more bottle necked.

edit to add, that building behind him to the left of the picture looks a little different, dormitory like. I wonder he's an Amish or similar kid, and his clothes have a little to do with what might be seen in that sort of community.

I thought they were wolf pelts, too. I doubt that the photo's description on that web-site means anything.

craigd, you convinced me it wasn't a Bullard, but I can't settle for a 92. Small as that guy might be, those cartridges are too big, even for a 30-30, never mind a 25-20. An 86 Winchester in .38-56 or maybe 33 Win. I sure wish there was an answer in the back of the book that we could look up and find out the truth.

I think the picture is only interesting because of the conversation about it. If there was a spec. sheet attached, it would likely be a dead end.

From my seat, the comparison of the 30-30 and the examples that you recommended are bigger don't quite add up. Remember, the length of your guesses are basically the same as the 30-30. There's some bottle neck that could be taken from the picture, but those are slender cartridges in the belt loops, no big fat case heads and heavy taper from rim to neck.

Pictures of 92/94 short magazine SRC's seem to be dead ringers for the rifle in picture. While I'd lean toward 30-30's in the belt loops, I mention possibly a '92 because of a very thin profile barrel. I also think the proportions of the rifle are a little like classic scaled .410's, the trigger guard opening looks a bit oversized compared to the receiver. While that's subjective, I think the big express cartridge lever gun receivers start to overshadow a similar sized trigger opening.

Only comments for fun, as I think was the intention of the topic.

I think the guy is indeed a smaller man. The handgun on his belt appears pretty large on a guy his size. And the cartridges maay also look larger than we think due to them being in loops of his pistol belt designed for pistol cartridges like .44-40 or .45 Colt. Thus a caliber like .30-30, .32 Win Spl. or even .25-35 might look bigger in the smaller loops.

I would say it's not a Bullard (I have several here) and there are no Bullards out there with barrel bands. It's not a takedown. It's a hard one to figure. My initial impression was that it's a special order Marlin carbine (carbine front end) with pistol grip stock and shotgun butt. Very intriguing.

The front end makes me think Winchester M1894 carbine.