doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DIY Gunsmithing @ doublegunshop.com Cutting barrels and point of aim issues ???

I can relate to shooting woodies "up close and personal". Many times any choke at all is a handicap.. They're the only duck I know of that lights on the water at 50 mph, 10' from you.

Good luck, SRH

Yep sometimes I have thought a tennis request would be a better tool than a shotgun.

Sounds to me like you boys know a little about roost shooting?...Geo

...... that and flood oak hammocks

Great fun

Morning woody shoots can be just as bad. Little suckers will light right by you so early you can't see them coming in.

SRB

It should make no difference at all .Shotgun barrels are not "regulated " as would be a double rifle . They are put together and they shoot where they shoot . In shotguns regulation is the boring of chokes to give a set pattern with a set cartridge at a set distance . Thats all .

If the average 28" 12 bore side by side were to be regulated as many seem to think then the muzzle ends would be about 5/16" to 3/8" apart to give overlapping patterns at 30 yards

It can be calculated mathematically to give the muzzle centers compared with the rear centers that would be needed to achieve this and shotguns were never been made that way .

I think what you say is true, but if the barrel of a double is bore sighted, the rib point of aim and marking where both barrel look. The patterns fired off the shoulder don't necessarily end up where the bores pointed.

I disagree. That may be your opinion of regulation, but not most of the gun trade's. Regulation, as regarding a doublegun means that both barrels print their respective patterns dead atop each other at usable range. That is NOT accomplished by how the chokes are bored (though sometimes correction can be made by altering the choke bore on a non-regulated gun) but rather by how the barrels are joined with convergence. This is done to compensate for the lateral recoiling of the left and right barrels on a S x S. Sure, they aren't regulated in the same way that a double rifle is, by bench rest shooting and adjusting the relationship of the barrels by changing the amount of convergence, until perfect ............ then soldering them up. Shotguns are regulated by building the barrel sets to a certain spec. If done exactly right they will be regulated with a reasonable load. The word regulation, again, regarding shotguns, does not mean they're shot, adjusted, shot some more, adjusted, ad nauseam, until finally right, then permanently joined. "Regulation" re: shotguns simply means that the barrels have been built in such a way that the centers of the patterns print to the same place.

I have seen Miller post on here the exact angle of convergence that Hunter Arms used when building their doubles. Their guns are "notorious" for being very well regulated. Given how badly many over the counter doubles are out of regulation, some manufacturers should pay more attention to it. Beretta refuses to acknowledge a problem unless the two barrel's patterns are over 8" off, from each other, at 25 yards.

SRH

Stan after 50 years in the English gun trade that includes years in Birmingham building new guns and years involved with sleeving I think I have little more insight into the construction of double gun barrels than some .
We may differ on what you on your side of the pond call regulation but on this side it is as I previously stated .

A pair of barrels were built taking into consideration the centers of the action at the breech then were brought to together at the muzzle . A Gun maker would have the same centers on the action regardless of the barrel length , be it 25" or 30 "so that alone should tell you something .
Apart from being paralleled that was all the barrel maker considered .

You can believe what you like and I dont really care , all I try to do is to set the record straight and correct misinformation when I see it .

Let's back up a bit, for the sake of trying to reach a common understanding of what each other is saying, if you will.

Are you saying that, in the British gun trade, no care or forethought was ever put into having the proper amount of convergence so that the barrels will print the individual barrels' patterns perfectly atop each other? It seems you are by saying that they are positioned at the breech for the correct center to center distance, then all were brought together at the muzzle until they touch, and they "shoot where they shoot"? Asked another way ......... if the muzzles were always brought together until touching before soldering up, would no consideration have been given, to where each barrel shoots, when deciding the distance between centers at the breech?

Not trying to be argumentative here, gunman, just trying to understand your position. Most of my guns are touching at the muzzles, with uncut barrels. However I have a few that are decidedly apart, also with uncut barrels, nowhere near touching, but shoot patterns that are dead atop each other. This shows me that the makers knew that the gun would crossfire if the muzzles were touching and would not have shot regulated patterns, so they designed in the proper amount of convergence for the amount of recoil.

SRH