|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums10
Topics38,443
Posts544,788
Members14,405
| |
Most Online1,258
Mar 29th, 2024
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,144 Likes: 1145
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,144 Likes: 1145 |
What makes you think I have preconceived opinions about it?
What causes you to lump me in with any particular group on this issue?
Could it be narrow-mindedness on your part, because we disagree on other issues at times?
There is lots about this issue I don't understand. We have many bald eagles, and the highest deer population one could imagine at the same time. Deer limits here are 10 deer per season, plus thousands shot during the crop growing months on depredation permits. How come, given all the deer killed here with lead based bullets, and buckshot, there are no lead poisoned eagles ever found here?
SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 388 Likes: 4
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 388 Likes: 4 |
Stan, ever seen an eagle cough pellet?
Ever seen gravel, very very worn gravel in a gizzard?
What is a lead shot pellet more similar too, a feather or gravel?
You guys can read the biology literature as well as anyone else. Look it up, because nothing that anyone tells you here that you don't want to hear is going to change your preformed minds. There is a lot of data out there on all of these aspects - if you really want to know. We just want to know what your end game is Brent. Eagles on occasion will ingest lead (from a variety of sources) and possibly die, no one is disputing that. However, those deaths are statistically insignificant for the population as a whole, and are inconsequential to the population growth of the species. If you are a calling for an across the board lead ban, just say so. At least we would then know what your ultimate motive is.
“I left long before daylight, alone but not lonely.”~Gordon Macquarrie
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463 Likes: 212
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463 Likes: 212 |
....You guys can read the biology literature as well as anyone else. Look it up, because nothing that anyone tells you here that you don't want to hear is going to change your preformed minds. There is a lot of data out there on all of these aspects - if you really want to know. You really can't help yourself, huh, Brent. What's a preformed mind? Sure there's lots of data out there, but I'm still unclear. Where's the Eagle time/abrasion charts for lead shot in a gizzard? Are any adjustments made for gizzard size, tone and acid production? Is there an optimum lead shot size efficacy study for one vs. two pellets? Is there any correlation with velocity of the pellet/pellets at the time of intake? I have read the data that a high percentage of Iowa newborns have an elevated lead blood level. Having missing or certainly underdeveloped gizzards at the time of birth, do human babies have access to a source of lead that birds do not? Never mind, I read up on that, you should read up the agendas that results from selective reading.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,482 Likes: 390
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,482 Likes: 390 |
Oh no disagreement brother canvasback ;-)
My point was that given a chance Eagles will be eating deer that are shot and never recovered over most any other food source available. And there a LOT of deer that are shot and never recovered.
The USFWS picture of the dead Eagles I posted is from Wisconsin where rifles are used for deer hunting. On the other side of the River in SE Mn. it is restricted to shotgun slugs. Rifle bullets fragment easily and it doesn't take much lead to kill an Eagle, or Loon. They find a lot more dead Eagles on the Wi. side than the Mn. side of the River.
For what ever reason those 2 avian species are extremely sensitive to lead poisoning, it doesn't take much lead to kill them. It does not require a long term exposure to lead like it does most people, it is kryptonite to them.
Guess should get back to work, someplace out there someone has solved the same problem I am working on. And posted the code to do so. Time to use google and copy and paste. I didn't work this hard to get to the top of the food chain to reinvent the wheel. I have no problem scavenging the work of someone that parked a solution to my problem in the public domain. I believe most people given a chance pick the low hanging fruit.
Mike, glad to see I was just dense and misunderstood you. Now get back to work sourcing code. LOL
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 598 Likes: 58
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 598 Likes: 58 |
The bald eagle population is indeed rising, as it is still recovering from the DDT era, during which they and many other birds high on the food chain virtually disappeared from the Lower 48. Purely from an ethical standpoint, however, I would argue that dying of ingested lead poisoning is a crappy way for any creature to die, and that alone is enough to inform my choice of ammo.
Further, lead vapor travels well beyond the wound channel in a game animal, and well into the meat we eat. As a Californian affected by all our absurd new gun laws, I hate to abandon all my older rifle ammo, but in this case I think it is the right thing to do, for the people who eat my venison, and for the condors and eagles which may eat the gut pile.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 197 Likes: 5
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 197 Likes: 5 |
How is it that people that survive(ed) on game killed by lead bullets, buckshot, etc and didn't all just die off in droves?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,091 Likes: 13
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,091 Likes: 13 |
If they found you dead in the woods and your blood was tested high for lead what would your cause of death be?
What if they found an eagle dead in the woods and its blood was tested high for lead. You figure out the rest about scientific data.
So many guns, so little time!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,375 Likes: 105
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,375 Likes: 105 |
If they found you dead in the woods and your blood was tested high for lead what would your cause of death be?
What if they found an eagle dead in the woods and its blood was tested high for lead. You figure out the rest about scientific data. If the family of the deceased really wanted to know, I expect a coroner could examine the body and give them a pretty good idea. Lots better science where human cause of death is concerned. And it would be very unusual to test an adult human and find the lead level above the CDC's level of concern. Unless maybe he'd been living on a diet of lead paint chips or something. Back in 2008, blood samples were drawn from 736 volunteers in North Dakota. 80% of them stated that they had eaten wild game. NONE of those blood samples showed a blood lead level above the CDC's recommended threshold.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 175
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 175 |
In the area where I jump shoot woodducks, I can say categorically, when there are eagles in the air, there are no wood ducks to be found.
Mergus
Duckboats, decoys and double barrels...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,091 Likes: 13
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,091 Likes: 13 |
Sorry, maybe I am being too obtuse.
Of course they would check further for your cause of death and maybe find out you died of a brain aneurysm then that would be your cause of death not lead poisoning, of course.
However if you were an eagle and had bad eyes (I am joking here) and ran into a tree and died of a brain aneurysm but they checked your blood and it had a high content of lead you would be counted (I am not joking now) in the study for lead poisoning from eating dead deer carcasses.
The statistic is convenient for the college professor who is doing a study paid for by the university or government or even an organization who champions animal rights.
So many guns, so little time!
|
|
|
|
|
