doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com laser engraving poll...

would you rather have a new gun with extensive laser engraving or a gun with very limited hand engraving/none at all?

Most of the laser engraved guns I see these days have no 'soul' and I wish they would have skipped it all together.

I do not care for laser engraving at all. I�d rather have a plain gun than one with high tech engraving. But somebody must like it or at least not care about it otherwise it would not exist.

For myself I'd lean to limited hand engraving (if done well) as opposed to a lot of laser engraving. Just a personal preference.

I have a gun with extensive laser engraving. It looks OK, concise etc. If I could have ordered the gun without I would have. Bear in mind I ordered the gun to hunt with, not to look at. The hunting part I am very satisfied with. I can live with the looks! Nice wood works more magic with me.
Chief

Absolutely no engraving would be my preference above any laser engraving. Unengraved top grade Purdeys and unengraved graded Parkers are much more elegant than poorly engraved or poorly reengraved examples.

I have cheap crass tastes, I love my Ceasar Gurerini Investus 7 and my RBL is also very nice.
also the Gurerini dropper points formed by the checking is cute. But the thing I can't stand is the oil/wax finish on the CG. Turns a nice gun into a POS.
bill

While I certainly prefer hand engraving, I have to admit that the new laser style that can handle curves and such is impressive. The CG guns come to mind. I'm with the Chief, it's often the wood that flips my switch!
Karl

All the laser engraving I have seen has been awful in my opinion, but I have not seen everything and I can imagine there is a style of laser work that is quite presentable. But I still may not like it as it removes the skilled craftsman from the equation.

Laser engraving that�s chased by hand is better than laser alone. Laser is the wave of the future, no doubt there. I clearly prefer hand engraving. Having said that, my vision sucks so bad now that I�m getting older (you could tell by examining my sporting clays scores), I�m not sure if laser engraving would even bother me all that much.

great comments and thanks. I agree 100%. I recently bought a new gun that i REALLY like everything about... except the full coverage LASER engraving...

RDD,
Pictures of it would help us decide further.
Karl

I'm often an oddball. In this case it's because I see a shotgun more as a tool than an object d'art. If a gun won't do what I expect of it no amount of artistic work can satisfy me. That said, I really appreciate some hand engraving. But, I'd much rather have laser engraving than some of the hand engraving I have seen come out of Spain and Pakistan. The best of both worlds is to have a gun that shoots "lights out" for you, and looks like a dream, too.

But, when it really comes down to it, pretty is as pretty does ............. for me. A good friend once won a shoot-off for champion of a side by side event at a major sporting clays shoot. He was shooting against a gent who was using a Purdey. My buddy was shooting a very worn Parker with several wraps of electrical tape holding the forend in place. After my friend won a spectator walked up to him and said "You've just got to respect a man that wins with a taped up gun".

So, I may be in the minority, but I'm not alone. When you're listed as "also ran", nobody remembers that your gun was hand engraved. No one on the bird field will either, but they will remember how you shot. I'd rather be remembered that way than for what I have.

SRH

I�d rather no engraving then either laser, or, poorly done hand engraving. I will also say I have seen very little game scene engraving that I consider well done.
Not everybody is Winston Churchill. But, too often, that doesn�t stop them from trying.

Best,
Ted

I shoot around a lot of folks who ooh and aw over lavishly laser engraved guns and barely even glance at a modestly hand engraved gun. But to not be hard on them they have no knowledge of or appreciation of the skill required to properly design and hand cut engraving one piece at a time. I find many who matured in an age of mass production and cannot comprehend what is required of a hand crafter article. Oh well......

My Rizzini Br550 has nice deep lasered engraving. Could never afford hand cut stuff nowadays. most of the surface lasered stuff does look very cheap though. Rather have none at all.

[img]https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv25485hei3/[/img]

Orvis Classic by Chapuis

Not very good at attaching images yet... hopefully this works. It is an Orvis Classic by Chapuis

Some people are fascinated by engraving (including myself), some are so-so while others see no use in it at all. There is a lot of territory in between.

Having studied and practiced firearms engraving for over 50 years now I have run into all kinds of opinions. And of course all levels of engraving quality.

It always boils down to personal preference.

I always approach a project with functionality at the forefront.

Laser engraving is simply mass product and though it has greatly improved over the years, remains lifeless to my eye. The "beauty" of it is very dependent on the design which is where most of it fails for me.

I have found the actual "art" portion of a project is the first few hours of developing the design. The next three or four hundred hours are pure craftsmanship.

Perhaps Kutter will chime in...

Yep.

I bought a cheap Yildiz 20ga from Academy Sports recently. On it, the laser engraving doesn't look too bad...Geo

Rizzini laser engraving. It is quite deep.

https://youtu.be/v58Yx_N1fFA

Why the choice between quantity and sparsity, ie between extensive laser and minimal hand engraving?

Basic to all engraving is good design and layout. That is the basic part of the training course in Italy since it is the major factor in the outcome.

A well laid out design exploits the shape of the gun it decorates, and that is the clue to good work, a round action needs different layout from a sidelock and so on. A kitsch lay out with lotsa gold will not be uplifted even by the best hand work.

As for preference, I prefer no engraving or a WELL done border around naked steel.

Today�s laser engraving is the modern equal of pressed checkering from the �70�s. Functional, but only passingly attractive to most and far cheaper to do than hand engraving. Difference is that I could convert that pressed checkering crap into cut checkering but I can�t do the same for the laser engraving.

Disagree, Jon. The pressed-in "checkering" from the 60's and 70's was absolute abuse to a gunstock that provided neither function or aesthetics. In comparison, today's machine engraving is worlds ahead of that crap. And you could not re-checker over the pressed-in imitation. Now if you're referring to laser-cut checkering that appeared in the early 80's, yes, it could be re-cut.
JR

I was told years ago that the game scenes on the Beretta Silver Pigeon II was and is done by EDM, not laser.
JR

Just about word for word what I was thinking.

John I recut many a Remington 1100 pressed checkering panel. At least a hundred of them. Hated that plastic finish Remington used back then also. Would have been a much easier task without that RKW finish or whatever they called it. It was a finish best used on bowling pins. Thick, nasty stuff.

Did my own 1100�s first . Then just about every other 1100 at several clubs I shot at. Back in those days we had a lot of trap shooters and the funny thing was that trap MC stocks were all much fancier wood than the B grade Skeet stocks. The regular a Skeet A grade wood was so bland it might as well been beech. They all had that glumly, thick plastic finish on them. First pass you have to clean out your cutters every inch or two.

If someone wants to be an artist, engrave a plaque and hang it on the wall. I wish that they would leave shotguns alone. I prefer no engraving at all.

Jon,
Can you please explain to me and others here how you "re-cut" the reverse, mashed-unto-the-wood pressed-in "checkering"? There are no grooves to follow, so what is the process you use?
JR

You use a single line cutter to convert the dimple lines into grooves. Once you get your master line started it goes fairly well. I cut it, the master line only, to almost full depth. I then would go over every other line in the panel one at a time, free handed to get as much RKW out of the way as possible. Then starting from my master line I would use a checkering head with one smooth row and one regular row cutter. The real problem is not converting the dimples into lines, but the never to be damned enough RKW finish is the worst problem. It clogs up the cutter almost every inch or so. You have to stop and clean it out all the time when you make your first pass. That is why I found the single line cutter was good to break the surface and then switch to regular cutters. Then back to a single row cutter to even things up if needed. This way does lower the checkering panel surface a little unless you are real careful around the edges. Or just put a nice mulled border on it after you are done.

Remington stocks were not very good looking with that pressed in mess. With enough time and a little effort, you can convert them to a decent checkering job unless they were pressed in too much in one area. I had a few stocks they must have either not been aligned right when they were pressed, or the wood was much softer in one area that another. Old 1100 stocks are every where. Take an old one and try it. But you will come to hate that RKW finish as much as I did.

I did one 1100, following instructions written by Carmichael, IIRC. That one was enough for me. But, it did improve the looks of it immensely.

SRH

Pressed checkering is so ugly, even dried mud on a gunstock looks better. Most laser engraving is about the same but I�m sure as time goes by it will get better. I hope so anyways.

Somewhere in my vault there is a Remington 700 ADL from the 1960s with that hideous pressed checkering. I'm guessing it's hiding in the darkest corner out of embarrassment. If I didn't have 10 thumbs I'd be tempted to try to recut it, but as bad as it looks, I'd only make it worse and it's not worth paying someone else to do it given what those rifles sell for these days.

How safe queens are created. Too ugly to use.

You need to get out more:

https://www.shootingtimes.com//editorial/gunsmithing_0106/100374


Carol, the lead checkering lady at Ahlman�s Custom Gun, in Morristown, MN can make a pressed checkering Remington look like a million bucks.

It will still be a Remington, however.

Best,
Ted

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/searc...amp;action=view
JR