doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Win 21 question

What are the differences between the 21 made by Win and the 21 made by CSMC ?

Will the CSMC gun take the heat of trap doubles in Florida heat ?

danc

In my opinion it is not the real thing but a copy not made by Winchester. Looks good but not the real thing. That goes for all guns made to look like their older counterparts.
As far as "taking the heat" there should be no problem, it's made from up to date metals.

About $5,000 for a standard grade

If you collect and/or shoot Model 21's, the "the real thing" needs to be qualified.
Do they have the Winchester name? No. The Winchester name was and still is owned by Olin. Winchester Repeating Firearms(part of Olin) sold the firearms business to USRAC in about 1983 and Olin licensed the name to USRAC. USRAC continued to manufacture Model 21's labled Winchester with one important distinction. The ribs are marked "Custom Built Winchester" whereas Model 21's made by Winchester Repeating were marked "Custom Built by Winchester".
Enter CSMC and Tony Galazan in the early 1990's. For whatever reason Tony and his company purchased the tooling for Model 21's from USRAC and continued to manufacture the Winchester Model 21 for USRAC. These guns are marked Winchester. USRAC went out of business recently so there are no more Winchester marked model 21's available made for USRAC by CSMC and those that were in production were recently auctioned.
Along the way, Tony found that he could build and sell the Model 21 without the Winchester name and does so to this day.
I first met Tony in the early 1990's and asked him to make a Model 21 for me but with Winchester on the gun. Tony told me there was only one at the time in production, a Grand Royal at $75K. I passed and continued to collect Winchester Model 21's. As the years passed, i looked at and handled every CSMC Model 21 I could get my hands on. The comparison to Winchester Custom Shop Model 21's (Winchester Custom Shop produced Model 21's from 1960 to 1983) was favorable and consistant.
About two years ago or so CSMC began to manufacture a 'Baby' frame 28 gauge and 410 gauge Model 21, something that Winchester never did. Winchester 28 gauge and 410's are on the 20 gauge frame and all/some? are with 20 gauge barrel blanks drilled out. These guns weigh over 7#'s. A 'Baby' CSMC Model 21 in 28 gauge can weigh 5#'s 13oz. I finally purchased one of these, a product Winchester never made and is as good as any Winchester marked 21.
Now are the CSMC guns Winchesters? Of course not but they are presently as good as any Model 21 Winchester ever made and the lineage is direct to Winchester through USRAC. Is a USRAC Winchester made by CSMC a Winchester? You tell me.-Dick
BTW, you will have no problems with a USMC Model 21 Trap in Florida and if you do, CSMC has a Lifetime warrenty.
Pictured is my Grand American 'Baby' Model 21 in 28 gauge.
I term it, "The finest gun Winchester never made!"

In January I toured the CSM facility and had the opportunity to handle one of the baby frame 28ga guns in assembly that was still in the white - a very nice gun. I have a 16ga CSM Grand American that at the time of my visit had shot over 13,000 rounds. My gun had been returned to me after a strip and clean by CSM; however, thanks to UPS and what appeared to be a 50 yard drop kick, I received my gun back with a badly damaged leather case and what appeared to be a damaged action - the gun would not close and lock-up.

I frankly didn't want this carrier to have another shot at damaging my gun any further and I chose to drive to New Britain, CT from Charlotte. During my visit, CSM stipped the gun and found a couple of small wood pieces from the damaged case in the action - this prevented the action from locking up properly. After the action was again cleaned and assembled - two boxes of shells were fired through my gun at their indoor range without any further problems. I was also given a new leather case and cover to replace the UPS damaged case.

I don't know what service in a similar situation Winchester would have been able to provide; however, CSM promply corrected the shipping damage to my 21 under their lifetime warranty.
Frankly, CSM's excellent service means more to me than the Winchester name engraved on the barrel rib.