doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com early J. Stevens double barrel

I've posted this old double on a couple other sites hoping someone my know a little bit more than what I've found on the internet. Its a early J.Stevens that some call a model 1877 three trigger. It's seems to be in working order. The hammers have a half cock and full cock and the triggers work. The bores are clean and maybe a little to clean. Wood is beat up by its solid and the ole shotgun has a nice patina and the barrels still show some Damascus or twist pattern. The front trigger is to open the action. It was a little off face but it wasn't anything a brass shim wouldn't fix. Wyatt Earp was known to carry one according to the web.

it seems to be all original.

very cool...

Nice
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/67/768/stevens-j-arms-co-s-x-s-shotgun-12

The barrels are "English Damascus Twist", Damas Anglais Coupe', Gebrochener Englischer Damast, or Combination Damascus



'FB' was likely the Liege tube maker, but I can't ID

It does not appear to have a 'step' at the end of the chambers for brass shells, but please have a double gun specialist check the chambers and barrel wall thickness before use.

Who was 'Red'?

Nice find. It looks like a rationalised hammer gun design, that does away with the weak points of the SXS. There are no locks to weaken the stock, the lock work is internal and protected, and from what I can see most likely it has a trigger plate setup. I wonder if the springs are coil.

Looking at robust guns like this, makes you wonder what could have been done if aesthetics were combined with robustness.

The breech balls are shaped a lot like my Remington 1889.

SRH

Thanks for the info Mr. Hause. unfortunately I don't think there is a ture double gun specialist in Arkansas. I will probably send it off to someone. I'm guessing Mr. Hamlin in Missouri is retired?

Not sure who Red is or was but it would be neat to know.

I did take the barrels off at lunch and they do have a nice ring to them on both sides with no indication of any dead spots.

Buck Hamlin is still in business but does not use a computer so a phone call is a must.

It would be nice "if the barrels are safe" to have someone take it apart and clean and fix anything that needed to be address. Could Mr. Hamlin or Bachelders handle such a odd duck?

Mr. Hamlin is within driving distance.

Just my 2 cents worth- not meaning any discouragement- but I see a few possible "issues" if you wish to shoot it with appropriate low pressure loads: (1) elongation or "out of round" on the firing pin holes, and the left barrel firing pin is not centered- (2) pressure ring marks on the standing breech- also wear mark from the extractor bar-- (3) no visible 90% radius at the base of the standing breech- a radius is a gun engineers method moving stress away from critical locking surfaces--

The late Brad Bachelder was both a close friend and hunting pal, but a true master gunmaker/gunsmith-- His passing a little over a year ago left the gunworld without a craftsman par excellence-------

Buck Hamlin lives in Peavely MO- is an avid turkey hunter, stock car enthusiast, and also a master gunsmith, who specializes in L.C. Smiths and Lefevers-- Buck has worked on 3 of my 12 gauge L.C. Smiths over the past 12 years-- The other gent is right, you have o get him on the phone, as he does NOT use the Internet- very wise man indeed, it might seem-- RWTF

Thanks for the info RWTF. I will call Mr. Hamlin.

I made up a couple 12ga blanks and test fired it. Both triggers and hammers work nicely and both blanks fired. The left primer hit is a little deeper than the right.

That's typical. The left barrel didn't get shot nearly as much as the right, in most cases.

Nice find.

SRH

I could be wrong on this, but my experience is that most of the very few shotguns built with "Stepped" chambers, were done so for use with paper shells, not Brass. Brass shells were thinner & used oversize wads, a stepped chamber would be undesirable for them. Most guns built specifically for use with brass shells had oversize bores but conventional comes. Several of my earlies Lefevers were so built.

R Marshall;
Nice find indeed there. My very first double was a J Stevens Arms & Tool Co hammerless, though a good bit later than this one. Could have been as early as around 1907 I think but pre WWI for sure.

< 1/4" "stepped" forcing cones were designed for brass 12A (NOT 12B which indicated bore size brass hull) and early paper hulls
http://www.parkerguns.org/pages/faq/12B.htm
I don't know when the 1/2" cone became standard.
The stepped cones and bore size of Parker Lifters has been discussed on the PGCA Forum
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22332
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5891
- 70,000 SN would be c. 1891. That would seem to be very late as the Brown designed Smith hammer (1894) and hammerless (1886) had 1/2 forcing cones and 2 3/4" chambers

I�m away from my files, but from memory the gun came in two grades. One marked Twist one the outside of the bar, and the other marked Damascus. Kind of an odd design, but very early. All I have seen had 1 , 2, or 3 digit serial numbers. I have shot my somewhat rattling one a few times and it was fun and without any issues.

.

FWIW, the "J. Stevens & Co - Chicopee Falls, Mass" logo was used only from 1864-1888.

.

Thanks for the all the info!

This appears to be somewhat a matter of terminology misunderstanding. I would not call a gun with a �" cone a stepped cone, just a short one. Some old guns have been encountered which had np Cone, just a step which is what I was referring to.

I fully realize we are talking here of guns built prior to the existence of SAAMI but after y were established the recommended a max cone angle, from the horizontal of 5�. With chamber & bore both of "Nominal" size this would give a cone length in a 12 gauge of .400". "IF" the bore were .020" oversize which is not uncommon for those older Waterfowlering guns built for use with brass shells the cone length would be reduced to just a few thousandths longer than �". These measurements are not extremely Easy for most to take but with exact measurements of chamber end, bore diameter & either the angle of cone or cone length the other dimension is easy to calculate with a bit of Trig.

I talked to Buck Hamlin this morning and I will be shipping it out Monday.

Thanks for the replies

I got good news from Mr. Hamlin. The barrels are in good condition. I am having him work his magic on the outside of the barrels while they are there. Thanks for the replies

Just another tid bit of information regarding this type of shotgun. It is one that was used in the movie Tombstone and carried I believe by Virgil Earp as he and his brother fired in the air to break up a mob scene. I read an article about the making of the movie and this particular shotgun was mentioned because it was one that was allegedly owned by one of the Earps in Tombstone. The movie prop master said he had looked all over the country before making the movie to find one of these and he was able to acquire three just in case one was damaged in the making of the movie. I have never seen one other than this one discussed and pictured here but a friend of mine says he hunted with one as a young boy. Interesting piece. I hope you will post picture after having this one refurbished.

Buck Hamlins handy work.

Sweet look to the barrels, but now you have to restore the rest of it!

Scroll down about 2/3 here
https://www.range365.com/guns-wyatt-earp-on-silver-screen#page-37

and down about 3/4 here
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Tombstone

Tell you what, Doc-- watch the Tombstone movie- the gunfight scene at the OK corral- where Val Kilmer fires=3 shots from a double hammer shotgun, without breaking it open after the first 2 shots are fired to reload for the third-- Hollywood- hummm!! RWTF