doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Got one of these coming Friday

I owned one Mossy'turd pump in my life...

It was one too many.

Damn, this article must be fake news.

http://www.randywakeman.com/TheReasonforFederalHeavyweight6forTurkey.htm

He's as full of chit as a Christmas turkey....

"Federal Heavyweight #6 with its 15 gram / cc density is the equivalent of firing lead #2 shot. At 50 yards, Federal Heavyweight #6 has the same retained velocity and the same penetration as #2 lead, with a dramatically higher pellet count: 268 pellets vs. 144 pellets assuming the same 1-5/8 oz. payload. It actually has a higher pellet count than #4 lead, very close to #5 lead, yet with the 50 yard performance of #2 lead."

Only thing the internet Wizard has right are the pellet counts....

How can a lighter weight pellet like Federal Heavyweight #6 started out at less velocity than a heavier lead pellet end up with the same performance at any yardage....

Stupid plain stupid.

Don't shoot the messenger. Why don't you contact Randy directly and let him know of your concerns:

http://www.randywakeman.com/contact.htm

I ain't got time to fool with him...

You have more time than anyone else on the whole planet. You waste 100% of it right here on this forum.

Brent nosleinad don't you have a liberal ecology class you need to be teaching....

Dave sent me a PM thanking me for my donation...he tried to refund the .50 cents I donated in your name...something about it being more than you are worth.

Interesting....

Awesome Frank. Glad you let me know. I knew, for absolute fact, you could not resist posting.

You keep sending in money for me. I'll keep billing Dave for your behavior. Obviously, he sure likes you a whole bunch.

Not really wanting to get in the middle of a personal argument, BUT, just to lay out a few facts. The ability to maintain velocity & to penetrate, other things being equal, is based on a factor known as the Ballistic Coefficient (BC). The BC is derived from a factor known as Sectional Density (SD) times a form factor, thus if we fired two 30 cal bullets of 150 grains weight with one having a flat point & the other a long nose "Spitzer, the pointed one would retain a higher velocity down range & would also give a deeper penetration. Sectional density is derived from the weight vs the cross-sectional area of the bullet/shot.

In the case of shot pellets, all being round, they have the same form factor so that part of the equation can simply be ignored & it falls to Sectional density only. The weight of a sphere/round ball goes up in proportion the cube of its diameter while area goes up in proportion to its square. Thus the sectional density of the same material is proportional to its diameter. Thus a #2 shot @ 0.150" has a 36% higher sectional density than a #6 @ 0.110".

Lead shot has a density of around 11 gram / CC, don't have exact figures here but pure lead is 11.342. Thus the Heavy shot @ 15 density is 15/11 or
36% higher than the lead.

There are of course other factors involved, the larger diameter will disturb more tissue, cause more severe bleeding & unless extremely hard the lead shot is more likely to flatten a bit on impact giving a better energy transfer even though lessening its penetration a bit.

Miller, thank you for your post and perspective regarding pellet density. The Wakeman article is moot as Federal doesn't use the 15 g/cc any longer but instead uses 18 g/cc effective last year. Browning now offers ammo in 18 g/cc effective this year and Stevens has designed a .410 single-shot, the Stevens 301, using TSS loads. Using KPY Shotgun Ballistic software here is a comparison of chilled lead #4 versus TSS #9 with a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps in each load. The lead load contains 217 #4. Using a gel penetration of 1.5" as a standard, the #4's 1.5" penetration limit is at 59.6 yards. The TSS #9's 1.5" penetration limit is at 58 yards. The 1 5/8 oz load of TSS 9's contains 580 pellets. This load is a common load handloaded for 20 ga. by amateurs for more than a decade in 20 gauge and now by Federal and Browning. Severe bleeding is not the goal in killing a turkey. Shock to the central nervous system (CNS) is the goal by hitting the head and neck, a much narrower target profile than the turkey's body. The difference between chilled lead compared to Nickel plated or 5% antimony alloy is 4 more pellets and 57 yards as the limit for 1.5". The tungsten shot doesn't flatten against a hard surface and bores through. It also tends to shoot tighter than lead regardless of the type of buffer used in the lead loads. Folks can draw their own conclusions as to what this means hunting turkeys. Stevens, Browning and Federal have made their conclusions as well as hundreds of handloaders over the last decade. It's fair to say either load would be devastating inside 50 yards or more if put on target. Gil