doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DIY Gunsmithing @ doublegunshop.com Stock Question

I was looking for a light 20 gauge sxs to use for turkey hunting 6 years ago and came across what I thought was a bargain in a Fausti that had been imported by Traditions. It had the features I was looking for, except it had a straight stock instead of the pistol grip I wanted. I figured I could get used to it, but disliked it enough that I seldom used the gun.

I have been watching for a pistol grip stock since I bought it, but have never seen one for sale. A couple weeks back I found a guy with 2 stocks for a Winchester 23 that he was almost giving away, so I bought them. I got him to measure the ends and decided I could fit one to my gun. One of them had 2" cut off and I thought it would be good to practice on before trying to install the decent one.

I found out quickly that stock makers earn whatever they charge. I've enjoyed working with it, but it's harder than I expected. Here is my question - is the recoil supposed to be primarily on the wood behind the stock bolt block? That looks to me like the only part of the Fausti stock that is substantial enough to handle recoil, and it's even more so with the Winchester stock adapted to it. The other places that the stock touches the action has such thin wood that I'm afraid it could crack if it absorbs any recoil.

The wood on the Fausti stock was left proud to the action; I had planned to try to fit it, but it's so thin that I think I should leave it proud on the new stock.

I am thinking I should glass bed it, taking care to do a good job with the wood behind the stock bolt block. If this is what is supposed to bear most of the recoil then the thin wood in other places shouldn't matter. I have bedded several rifles, but never thought of doing a sxs shotgun.

This is a cheap gun and certainly not worth paying someone to restock. I obviously have no experience in stock building, so thanks for any help.

I am not at all familiar with a Fausti, or what it might take to cheat and adapt a Winchester 23 stock to fit. But you are correct to think that recoil is likely to crack thin sections. Ideally, the more surface area of dense end grain that you can get inletting contact with on the rear of the action, the better. The only place to avoid contact is where a wedge effect might split the stock, as at the rear of a tang for example.

I have seen where a gunsmith built up thin or weak areas in the inletting, where it wouldn't be visible, with small blocks of walnut epoxied in place. Then this added walnut filler block is headed up as if you were starting from a blank. Sounds like good practice if you can pull it off.

Thanks Keith, I should have posted a picture. You can see where the wood will contact the action, and it looks like to me that most of the recoil has to go to the block and the tangs that hold it. The Winchester stock is not as thick as the original at the front where it fits into the action.

I am thinking that it shouldn't matter if I bed it well. But since I have never done such a thing, I thought I should ask people who know.

fev fallout

While the block the through bolt goes into is the main recoil lug the mating of the stock where it meets the action is important to spread the recoil forces over as much area is equally important.

Thanks Mark, I got my bedding materials out and found they were mostly too old to use. I ordered a new kit and will plan to bed both stocks. It's good that I have the short one for practice. I have some walnut I can use to glue pieces to the inside of the front of the stock to reinforce it in the manner Keith mentioned.

There are also add on pistol grip extensions that could be added to the original stock.

if your bedding material is acraglas put it in the microwave 1 min or less at a time till soft the use it.

Thanks for the tip. Put both the resin and hardener in the microwave? What about the release agent? All 3 have become solid. I added some alcohol to the release agent, but it doesn't appear to be dissolving very well

Thanks for the info, but I've worked on this one too long to give up on it. I'm concerned about the strength of it, but I think bedding it should take care of that.

For release agent, I use automobile paste wax,,the 'soft' kind. Use a common toothbrush to apply liberally to the metal and let it dry. Never had a problem.
There are lots of other alternatives that people use, but that's just my offering.

On those rounded rear tang ends,,before you apply any release agent you can carefully lay over a piece of common scotch tape, 2 layers if you wish. Just cover the radius of the curve and cut it off as it blends into the straight sides of the tangs. Then apply your release agent what ever it it right over the tape and the surrounding metal.

The idea is that the tape layer(s) will produce a nice even relief of a few .000 at the rear of the tangs to avoid cracking from setback should it still happen.
It makes a nice clean job of it and is easy to do.

Up front you can if you wish very gently taper the sides of the frame inward,,very gently..
That's called draft on the part. Here it will keep the stock held tight to the action and tangs. You only need a few degrees of draft,,hardly noticable and no matter how much you file in, it won't change the side outside contour at all anyway. Only the very small top and bottom frame to wood contacts will show the taper.

Be careful enlarging the contact areas by adding glued in wood at the head of the stock beyond what the metal of the frame is.
You may be trying to boost the strength, but you may block the operation/rotation of the hammers to the rear or sometimes the bolt retracting.

There's plenty of contact surface on that action. Square it up a little to even better make flat surfaces even if you don't add any draft. Careful glas bedding and a full draw on the stock bolt will have it secure.

Have fun with it..

Thanks for all the tips, Kutter.

The wood on the replacement stock is only about half as thick as the original, hence my concern. There is room to add some wood without interfering with the operation of the gun, but that is a great tip for me to be aware of that.

If your stock bedding epoxy has aged and deteriorated so much that the components are solid, it isn't worth trying to use it for a glass bedding job. Epoxy can have a very long shelf life if stored properly, but there are limits. You may be able to soften the resin and hardener in a microwave or other heating method, and get it soft enough to mix. But heated epoxy will have a much shorter working life before it kicks over and begins to harden. You may not have enough time to properly complete your bedding project, and end up with even more work. Buy some new bedding compound. Save the old stuff for small non-critical jobs like repairing stripped out screw holes with glued in dowels. Or use it to fill stone chips on your pick-up truck. Or just toss it if it's too far gone.

As Kutter says, automotive paste wax makes an excellent release agent. I have a can of Johnson's Paste wax that has lasted for years, and it is also great protection for gun stock finishes.

Me, too. And I agree on it being a great bad weather protectant.

SRH

Most of the time when I buy accraglass gel it is hard and clumpy when it gets here. I put the closed containers of both the resin and the hardener in simmering water for several minutes. Makes for a butter smooth product. Working time is shorter than at room temp but I have never had a problem, with it setting too quickly. I do find that if I mix larger quantities of the liquid accraglass it gets very hot, bubbles and sets really fast. Seems to happen with big volumes of the liquid even at room temp. Wax does work great as a release agent. I'm a Kiwi shoe polish guy myself.

Here's a link to some information on epoxy shelf life, and a graph that shows the rapid decline in pot life of mixed epoxy as temperature of the mix increases. And the highest temperature tested was only 100 degrees. Hotter will cause it to kick over even faster:

https://epoxyworks.com/index.php/epoxy-shelf-life/

I haven't bought any Accraglass regular or Gel from Brownells lately, because there are other sources for high quality bedding or bonding epoxies at much more economical prices. Brownells does not make epoxy resin or hardener. They merely purchase a good quality product in bulk, and repackage it into smaller quantities.

Not one batch of Accraglas I ever bought from Brownells was either hard or clumpy when I received it. I'd probably return it if that ever happened. Of course, the old Accraglas components Coosa has is actually solid... apparently well beyond clumpy, so you might want to pay particular attention to the paragraph in the article in the link I provided that says:

We have mixed 15-year-old WEST SYSTEM 105 Epoxy resin with newer hardener and it cured fine (See Shelf Life in Real Life). Although material that is several years old should cure as designed, you might want to save it for applications where strength or clarity are not paramount.

That's kinda what I said... not because I am an epoxy expert, but because I have researched the subject, and those who actually are experts will tell you that old degraded epoxy is not as strong as fresher stuff. And please note that the 15 year old West System resin they used was mixed with newer hardener. West System says their product has a minimum shelf life of two years. I bought four 5 gallon buckets of Euco Industrial 4:1 epoxy and the hardener at an industrial auction over 20 years ago. I still have some left, and it has been stored in a cool dry basement. The Resin looks like the day I bought it, but the Hardener, which was lighter in color than honey, is now quite dark. It still sets up, but I don't believe it is as strong as it was when fresh. I'm not telling Coosa to throw it away if it can still be used for something less critical than stock bedding. But there are better ways to save a nickel than using degraded product for stock bedding.

>>> But there are better ways to save a nickel than using degraded product for stock bedding.<<<

I agree, Keith, and only considered it because I didn't wanna wait for the new kit. Brownell estimated a week for delivery, so I bought the Bedrock kit and it came yesterday. I bedded the short stock last night and it turned out ok. I will bed the stock I plan to use next week and try to finish the project.

If it turns out to look decent, I will post a picture in this thread. If it doesn't, I won't post it because I know jOe would ridicule me and call me a moron again.

Thanks for all the help.

While I do not use the West System epoxy, a short read of the article shows the graph to be accurate for the West System 105/206(&7) products, not all epoxy. A call to Brownell's tech support is how I found out about heating up the Accraglass gel. The gel has a very long working window, multiple hours not minutes, and heating it a reasonable temp has not created any issues for me. YMMV,
Steve

There are one minute epoxies, and five minute epoxies, and epoxies that may not catalyze (kick over) for an hour or more...

But temperature of the components or the mixed product has the same effect on all of them. Higher temps cause the reaction to occur faster, and lower temps slow down the chemical reaction. Even the increasing temps internally generated by the chemical reaction itself causes an acceleration of hardening and a reduction of pot life. That is why you had the problems you mentioned when mixing larger quantities. Small batches do not retain the heat they generate as well as large batches. Then when you reach even higher temperatures above 180 degrees F or so, most epoxies begin to break down and fail.

When Coosa mentioned that his bedding materials had all become solid... not just thick or lumpy... he did not specify whether he was using Accraglas gel, or the liquid, or another brand of epoxy entirely. It thus seemed obvious that his materials had seen better days and should be used for less critical projects, or just pitched out.

Another thing that all epoxies apparently have in common is that they do have a definite shelf life which has a measurable effect upon performance and ultimate strength. There are no absolutes because storage temperatures and conditions vary. Like drugs, food, and many things, storage in a cool dry place is better. The effect of age and/or degradation appears to have a more deleterious effect on the hardener than the resin. But the real epoxy experts and chemists who develop and manufacture epoxy all seem to agree that old outdated materials are not as strong as fresh product.

I would trust their opinion on the matter of epoxy shelf life and performance more than the guys at Brownell's tech support.

I took it apart after the bedding job and it seems to have worked ok. I think it would have cracked for sure if I hadn't bedded it. The short stock seemed to be very solid when I finished it, so I didn't bother to reinforce the front.

I realize that 99% of the folks here would prefer the gun in it's original configuration, which is this:

cool black baby boy names

Here is the replacement stock:


My plan was to have the gun camo-dipped for turkey hunting, but I like it much better with the new stock. It not only gave me the pistol grip angle for my hand, but it increased the DAH from 2.25 to 2.75, which fits me far better. I took it to my clay range and shot it a few times and it felt much better. I might skip the camo job and just finish the tru-oil job. It has just 2 coats on it now.

Thanks for all the help and ideas.

It looks as if your experiment to adapt a Winchester 23 buttstock to a Fausti had a happy and successful ending. With the vast number of different frame and stock inletting configurations, the odds are really stacked against a project like this working well and coming out looking good. Congratulations. The proof will be in the shooting, and I hope it continues to perform well.

I'd hang on to the original straight grip stock because it will make the gun more marketable should you ever decide to sell it.

Thanks Keith, I will definitely hold on to the other stock with directions for my wife to make sure they stay together when I am gone. I have a couple of guns that I have modified that I still have the parts to restore to original condition.