doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DIY Gunsmithing @ doublegunshop.com Stock Question

Thanks for all the tips, Kutter.

The wood on the replacement stock is only about half as thick as the original, hence my concern. There is room to add some wood without interfering with the operation of the gun, but that is a great tip for me to be aware of that.

If your stock bedding epoxy has aged and deteriorated so much that the components are solid, it isn't worth trying to use it for a glass bedding job. Epoxy can have a very long shelf life if stored properly, but there are limits. You may be able to soften the resin and hardener in a microwave or other heating method, and get it soft enough to mix. But heated epoxy will have a much shorter working life before it kicks over and begins to harden. You may not have enough time to properly complete your bedding project, and end up with even more work. Buy some new bedding compound. Save the old stuff for small non-critical jobs like repairing stripped out screw holes with glued in dowels. Or use it to fill stone chips on your pick-up truck. Or just toss it if it's too far gone.

As Kutter says, automotive paste wax makes an excellent release agent. I have a can of Johnson's Paste wax that has lasted for years, and it is also great protection for gun stock finishes.

Me, too. And I agree on it being a great bad weather protectant.

SRH

Most of the time when I buy accraglass gel it is hard and clumpy when it gets here. I put the closed containers of both the resin and the hardener in simmering water for several minutes. Makes for a butter smooth product. Working time is shorter than at room temp but I have never had a problem, with it setting too quickly. I do find that if I mix larger quantities of the liquid accraglass it gets very hot, bubbles and sets really fast. Seems to happen with big volumes of the liquid even at room temp. Wax does work great as a release agent. I'm a Kiwi shoe polish guy myself.

Here's a link to some information on epoxy shelf life, and a graph that shows the rapid decline in pot life of mixed epoxy as temperature of the mix increases. And the highest temperature tested was only 100 degrees. Hotter will cause it to kick over even faster:

https://epoxyworks.com/index.php/epoxy-shelf-life/

I haven't bought any Accraglass regular or Gel from Brownells lately, because there are other sources for high quality bedding or bonding epoxies at much more economical prices. Brownells does not make epoxy resin or hardener. They merely purchase a good quality product in bulk, and repackage it into smaller quantities.

Not one batch of Accraglas I ever bought from Brownells was either hard or clumpy when I received it. I'd probably return it if that ever happened. Of course, the old Accraglas components Coosa has is actually solid... apparently well beyond clumpy, so you might want to pay particular attention to the paragraph in the article in the link I provided that says:

We have mixed 15-year-old WEST SYSTEM 105 Epoxy resin with newer hardener and it cured fine (See Shelf Life in Real Life). Although material that is several years old should cure as designed, you might want to save it for applications where strength or clarity are not paramount.

That's kinda what I said... not because I am an epoxy expert, but because I have researched the subject, and those who actually are experts will tell you that old degraded epoxy is not as strong as fresher stuff. And please note that the 15 year old West System resin they used was mixed with newer hardener. West System says their product has a minimum shelf life of two years. I bought four 5 gallon buckets of Euco Industrial 4:1 epoxy and the hardener at an industrial auction over 20 years ago. I still have some left, and it has been stored in a cool dry basement. The Resin looks like the day I bought it, but the Hardener, which was lighter in color than honey, is now quite dark. It still sets up, but I don't believe it is as strong as it was when fresh. I'm not telling Coosa to throw it away if it can still be used for something less critical than stock bedding. But there are better ways to save a nickel than using degraded product for stock bedding.

>>> But there are better ways to save a nickel than using degraded product for stock bedding.<<<

I agree, Keith, and only considered it because I didn't wanna wait for the new kit. Brownell estimated a week for delivery, so I bought the Bedrock kit and it came yesterday. I bedded the short stock last night and it turned out ok. I will bed the stock I plan to use next week and try to finish the project.

If it turns out to look decent, I will post a picture in this thread. If it doesn't, I won't post it because I know jOe would ridicule me and call me a moron again.

Thanks for all the help.

While I do not use the West System epoxy, a short read of the article shows the graph to be accurate for the West System 105/206(&7) products, not all epoxy. A call to Brownell's tech support is how I found out about heating up the Accraglass gel. The gel has a very long working window, multiple hours not minutes, and heating it a reasonable temp has not created any issues for me. YMMV,
Steve

There are one minute epoxies, and five minute epoxies, and epoxies that may not catalyze (kick over) for an hour or more...

But temperature of the components or the mixed product has the same effect on all of them. Higher temps cause the reaction to occur faster, and lower temps slow down the chemical reaction. Even the increasing temps internally generated by the chemical reaction itself causes an acceleration of hardening and a reduction of pot life. That is why you had the problems you mentioned when mixing larger quantities. Small batches do not retain the heat they generate as well as large batches. Then when you reach even higher temperatures above 180 degrees F or so, most epoxies begin to break down and fail.

When Coosa mentioned that his bedding materials had all become solid... not just thick or lumpy... he did not specify whether he was using Accraglas gel, or the liquid, or another brand of epoxy entirely. It thus seemed obvious that his materials had seen better days and should be used for less critical projects, or just pitched out.

Another thing that all epoxies apparently have in common is that they do have a definite shelf life which has a measurable effect upon performance and ultimate strength. There are no absolutes because storage temperatures and conditions vary. Like drugs, food, and many things, storage in a cool dry place is better. The effect of age and/or degradation appears to have a more deleterious effect on the hardener than the resin. But the real epoxy experts and chemists who develop and manufacture epoxy all seem to agree that old outdated materials are not as strong as fresh product.

I would trust their opinion on the matter of epoxy shelf life and performance more than the guys at Brownell's tech support.

I took it apart after the bedding job and it seems to have worked ok. I think it would have cracked for sure if I hadn't bedded it. The short stock seemed to be very solid when I finished it, so I didn't bother to reinforce the front.

I realize that 99% of the folks here would prefer the gun in it's original configuration, which is this:

cool black baby boy names

Here is the replacement stock:


My plan was to have the gun camo-dipped for turkey hunting, but I like it much better with the new stock. It not only gave me the pistol grip angle for my hand, but it increased the DAH from 2.25 to 2.75, which fits me far better. I took it to my clay range and shot it a few times and it felt much better. I might skip the camo job and just finish the tru-oil job. It has just 2 coats on it now.

Thanks for all the help and ideas.

It looks as if your experiment to adapt a Winchester 23 buttstock to a Fausti had a happy and successful ending. With the vast number of different frame and stock inletting configurations, the odds are really stacked against a project like this working well and coming out looking good. Congratulations. The proof will be in the shooting, and I hope it continues to perform well.

I'd hang on to the original straight grip stock because it will make the gun more marketable should you ever decide to sell it.