doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com My Rolling Block project

I feel like a kid on a trip asking, "Are we there yet"?
Well the answer is YES! The postman delivered a nice big shipping crate a few minutes ago, and I couldn't get it open fast enough! Al Springer at Snowy Mountain Blue really outdid himself! (Is that really possible?) His colors on the action are as good as it gets, and spot on for a Remington!









I let Al do the polishing on the barrel since it wasn't fitted when I sent it to him. He always does a little extra touch up work anyway, and this barrel is perfection! As is his usual great rust bluing! The work done by Pat at C Sharps to fit and chamber is equally great!









Wood is some of the leftovers from Remington's late 1990's run. This is their high grade custom shop wood.





Barrel is a 34" #3.5 weight Green Mountain .40 caliber. It is chambered in the old .40-50 Sharps Straight.�
Still need to mount up the wood I fitted prior to sending it to Al Springer, but I'll get that taken care of this weekend.

That is going to be a nice rifle. Heavy as all get out, but nice. With that itty-bitty cartridge, it won't be much recoil at all. What are your plans for it?

Slipped the stocks on just to get a picture.

Vall, That is a dandy. Very nice
Think you will be well pleased with how it shoots.
The long range sight may be a little ambitious for the caliber, but will work.
Chuck

Nice !

I still think the roller's are one of the ugliest rifles ever made. However, to temper that, like the ugly little puppy, they have wormed their way into my heart and mind. While I will never consider them elegant, or even pretty, I sure like 'em and that one is a DANDY!!!! It comes very close to changing my mind about their appearance. Those case colors simply "pop" to wear out even more a worn out word.

Hi Vall, Very nice job.Really coming together.
As a couple others have asked, the 40-50 is fairly tame for a big rifle and tall sight, may I ask your usage plan for the rifle? Don't get me wrong I built a 40-50 on a Ballard and a lady friend shot it for a long time, that worked well out to 600 yrds.

Since I shoot long range, and I don't shoot BP, the .40-50SS will see smokeless loads. The .40-50SS went obsolete before smokeless powders hit the market, and it's an anemic BP cartridge. Had it survived to the smokeless powder era I think it might still be around today. 50 grs. of BP is not enough to properly push the 300-350 gr. bullets past midrange levels. Original Remington advertisements listed it as a caliber for the Midrange Creedmoor rifles, so a 500 yd. caliber at best.
I have another original Remington Rolling Block Sporter in .40-50SS, but have only had it for about a year, and haven't worked out long range loads as the original has a slower 1:20" twist.
I plan to try this one out to 1000 yds., and with smokeless powder loads in the 1350-1400 fps range I hope it performs well. The small case capacity is a plus over larger .40 calibers like my .40-65 and .40-85 caliber rifles. It will fill the case better, and should be more efficient. We'll see if that theory works out in reality. I have until July to get some loads worked up and tested.
I shoot my other Rolling Block in .40-65 using the RCBS 300 and 350 CSA bullets. It does quite well at 650-1000 yds., and has the same 1:16" twist Green Mountain barrel. So I think if I get my loads figured out for the smaller case it should do as well.
The sight is a Remington from the run they built for their Rolling Blocks in the late 1990's. Numrich sold them as parts, so I purchased all the pieces and assembled it. They were a thrifty $130 price, so no reason to buy a shorter sight for more money. And a midrange runs out of height before I get to 650 yds., so they wont work for me. Takes enough elevation to compensate for a 50'-60' arc in the bullet's flight out to 800-1000 yds.

Interesting project and idea that you are chasing. Is there an organized competition for smokeless loads like this?

I'll be interested to hear how it works out. I assume you are using a 14" twist or faster and a grease groove bullet.

Our annual shoot is about 18-20 guys and gals who get together each year to shoot for fun. Never to compete. But we have long range shoots at our club open to any type of weapon, and any type of powder.
The Quigley is also open to any type of powder and traditional style single shot rifles. I hope to make it there some day.

I have a 1:16" twist in this barrel, as I have in another Rolling Block in .40-65 Win. That gun also sees only smokeless loads with 18.0-18.5 grs. of 4198 and the same 300 or 350 gr. RCBS CSA bullet. I'm confident the smaller case of the .40-50SS will do even better with smokeless, although I may start at slightly smaller charge due to the smaller case capacity. Once I run them over the chronograph, and check groups I'll begin to raise the charge to see where it gets best accuracy, and hope it stays around 1300-1400 fps.

I've bet my .40 cal money on a 14 twist and a ~420 gr bullet. Someday, I'll find out how it does. My buddy built an identical one however, and it shoots extremely well out to 500m. Haven't tried any further.

I should add another friend bet the farm on a .40-82 and a 17" twist. He could not get a bullet to 1000 yds most of the time. No exaggeration. it just would not stay stable long enough to make the flight.

On my .40-65 with the same 1:16" twist all the ballistic data I found said that a 400-420 gr. bullet was best for that twist rate. But I tried all sorts of powders, charges, with a Snover and it seemed to begin to destabilize at just over 600 yds. I printed it on paper and although groups were pretty good at 650 yds., the bullets were beginning to keyhole. But the lighter 300 and 350 grain bullets stayed stable at the same distance, and even at 700 yds. were still stable. Both loads were moving closer to 1400 fps to get best accuracy and stability.
Surprisingly my Ballard Pacific in .40-85 Everlasting likes both bullets in 300-350, and the 420 Snover equally well, and shoots them just as accurately. It's an original barrel in minty condition, and has the 1:20 twist rate. Should not shoot the heavier bullets well, but it doesn't seem to know it shouldn't. It's equipped with an unusual tall midrange that falls between the Ballard Long range and the Ballard Midrange. Pretty rare sight.

I'm surprised you can get a bullet that big to stabilize in a 16 twist, but all of my rifles seem to need more twist or shorter bullets than everyone else's.

I try to follow and apply all those ballistic programs, plus input from shooters who say this or that works. But I still go through the load testing of various bullets and powders to see what a particular gun likes. Sometimes what isn't supposed to work, works great for no particular reason.
I've had a lot of people tell me a 300-350 gr. bullet wont hit anything past 500 yds., at least not consistently. But they sure work for my guns, and have a couple friends who have also tried them in their .40's and had great results. They sure take less powder, and give less recoil, so that's just another benefit of the lighter bullets.

Hi Vall,

I hope you don't mind if I ask. I'm having C Sharps chamber a barrel for me on one of their actions, and I suppose I could just ask them, but I'm intrigued.

How willing are they to do other actions besides their own, are they approachable? I was going under the assumption that they would chamber for cataloged cartridges, do they have an 'interesting' assortment of other reamers that one could inquire about? Would 'Pat' be the fellow to just ask for or do these projects cross his bench anyway?

Thanks much for any comments you might have, and sorry to go off topic. Based on your experiences, I'm also leaning towards giving Snowy Mountain a try. I really like the lines and proportions of your Rolling Block project, and I have no doubt it'll shoot great. Thanks for sharing it.

Craig

Craig,
Pat is the shop foreman or superintendent at C. Sharps, so I would guess he would be the guy to speak with. But I've never spoken to him as Al at SMB has always dealt with Pat when I needed his services. I do know that Al said that C Sharps not only does work beyond what they build, but also reproduces rollstamps on barrels too. A friend of mine sent his 1886 in .50 caliber to Al for barrel repair or reline. Al had Pat at C Sharps install a new barrel, and chamber in the original .50 caliber. They also put all the original Winchester markings on his barrel to keep it looking correct. Al put new stocks on the 1886, and did the case colors and rust bluing.
My friend had Al send the old wood and barrel back with the restored gun so it will be with it if he ever sells it.
If you plan to have Al do the case color and rust bluing, I'd call and ask about the barreling. Not sure about all the caliber reamers C Sharps has, but so far they've never had an issue doing whatever caliber I wanted. But none have been too unusual either.

PS-If you need an action annealed to polish it. AL does this free if you send it to him, and use him to do the color case afterwards.

Vall

Thanks Vall. I've had a chance to stop by the C Sharps shop a couple or few times and I'm careful not to waste their time, but they're always down to earth, pleasant and service oriented. So, I was comfortable giving them my business for odds and ends in the past and going to have them do some smithing. Thanks again for expanding on the thoughts, particularly the Snowy Mountain shop. If you do make it out to the Quigley shoot, you could pop in on some of these folks.

Not sure yet if I'll make the Quigley this year. I've been trying to get into a local gun club that has a 1,000 yd. range where I can get more practice time in, but never heard back on my application. Was told the other day by a friend that their waiting list takes about 18 months to join the club! Yikes!