doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Thoughts on this Purdey 12 gauge

Steve, there's no use in trying to argue with Ted. He knows everything.

The other problem with sleeving is that VERY FEW sleevers apparently bother to strike the new tubes to achieve the original balance. This comment is based on handling hundreds of sleeved guns over the past 8 or 10 years. Maybe 10% felt like they did when they left the works.

http://www.bsaltd.com/EnglishGuns.htm

Give Charles a call, he may be able to help you find what you seek.

Ted - welding has to do with cosmetics, not safety. A carefully welded and struck seam is near invisible. The issue with this work is that some may pass it off as OE barrels, knowingly or unknowingly.

E330 - Most sleevers would, as far as I can determine, prefer to make some extra money with the striking you refer to. However, most customers are aware of the reduction in value of sleeved guns and specify a cheap job (unwilling to pay for careful striking or more than minimul bore work). Note that very few guns handle today as they did when they left the works. Most, especially the sleeving candidates, have thinner tubes. The sleeves move the weight up, balance forward, and increase the swing efforts; unless the owner spends money to have additional work done on them. That can be good or bad, depending on the handling "fingerprint" desired by the gun owner.

Good point, Don. It may be the customer, not the sleever doing making the decision. Some of the OLD WR sleeved guns were horrible, the ones I've seen in the past few years are terrific. Some doubt I've heard as to which WR was doing some of the sleeving.

I once had I gun I gave to Nick Makinson. The balance was all wrong (restocked/sleeved) by someone else. I said "You know what it's supposed to feel like, make it feel that way."

He did.

E330 - I think you are comparing older sleeve jobs done on the cheap for salvaging cheaper guns to more recent sleeving jobs done to relatively more valuable guns. In the current case, more customers are willing to spend more money to salvage a gun. However, it remains real iffy to recover the cost of sleeving at the time of gun sale. This tends to drive down quality in an effort to keep cost down. $2000 spent on the barrels of a $1000 gun in hopes of making it a $3000 gun is risky; $1200 to make it a $2200 gun is a better gamble in most peoples' math.

One thing I do know is that the welded up barrel Purdey in question was rejected out of hand by our hero, and, presumably, by his very good gunsmith. Further, the reputable dealer has pulled it, lock, stock and welded barrels off his site.

There were a few issues along with those barrels, but, in and of themselves, the welded tubes were hardly a selling point, it would seem.

Reputable dealer could send it off to Kirk, and have a good and proper sleeving job done (Kirk will mark it sleeved, if they request) and re-offer it for sale. Kirk has always made it a point to maintain original balance on the guns he sleeves.

Eric, just concentrate on keeping 12 gauge ammunition in 12 gauge guns, henceforth-that has been a troublesome issue for you in the past, as I recall.
Best,
Ted

Yes Ted, once I dropped a stray 16 ga shell into a 12 ga gun during a flurry. I neither dropped a 12 ga shell on top or it nor tried to close the gun. If this is the best you can do, give up.

You know what you know (French guns) but you don't know anywhere nearly as much as you think you know (a fact which you have been proving by demonstration on bulletin boards for, oh, what 8 years?).

That is exactly correct and the point I was making about the India WR sleevers, particularly those done by the Missouri branch of WR USA, not the Clodes.

E330 - I understand that there is only one WR - past, present, and for the foreseeable future. They are ace machinists and engineers, among other skills. However, they did some cheap sleeving of cheap guns in the, oh, say, '50's and '60's. They needed money. Who would have ever imagined that the world would ever care about some boxlock that could be bought for a few £, put back in service for a few more £, and sold for a few £ profit. Yet, guns that have moldered for 50-100 years are suddenly valuable. I'm not aware of any sleeving work done in India or Missouri. What information do you have on this?

Ted - far as I can read, Ken rejected the Purdey based on #1 - he wants a highly original gun with as much OE finish as $25K can buy, #2 - the price and thesleeved barrels didn't go together; appears that SB agrees, but we will see how that works out. Don't see where anyone said it was a bad/unsafe sleeving job. Maybe it was too good to be left unmarked as the average Purdey buyer would not detect it. I'd bet there has been at least one snippy call from SB to whoever/wherever he bought this gun!!

No Don, not so. The FORMER (in Missouri, not to be confused with the EXCELLENT current Montana US branch) did some things "on their own" that were particularly bad.