doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Side Levers?

I don't know anything about English doubles with side levers. Can you experts give me the pros and cons?

Thank you

They are fun, condition is everything

Have never had one myself but reports are it�s more ergonomic than top levers. And the top tang is more streamlined. Usually the side lever is on the right side but occasionally on the left. Odd that more weren�t made on the left side since one doesn�t need to release the grip to thumb open the lever. Once again, just stuff I�ve heard.

I have a favorite Stephen Grant with Boss barrels. 12 bore.

Not really up on who all made them, but of what I have seen most of the Better grade guns had the lever on the right while some lower grade ones put it on the left. I have a W Richards with the left lever. This gun is Birmingham proofed but is neither a Westley nor William, most likely built by Clabrough. As skeettx said, "Condition is Everything". Unfortunately, mine is in no condition to use.

Just from handling it, I feel I would like it, & also feel I would much prefer the left lever. I have not tried a right lever for comparison though. I do not feel it would have a significant advantage over the top lever, nor a significant disadvantage either. I "Think" I would prefer either the left or top lever over a right lever, but again have not tried the right one.

They are more ergonomic and the top tang is as Joe said streamlined. I have both a right and left, and much prefer the left as your thumb is on the left side. Catching ejected hulls with a right lever is challenging; a lot easier with a left, if i want to reload. I think side levers were fashionable in the UK for a time. You tend to see more Grants with side levers than the other London brands, but who knows. Have fun if you find one.

I've got one sidelever doublegun, and for the life of me I cannot see how it is more ergonomic than a toplever. If someone feels it is for them, that's fine, but not for me. I catch my empties out of top lever ejector guns and don't believe I drop one in one-thousand.

The above reference to which side is more beneficial to catching ejected hulls has me wondering, what percentage of side-lever shotguns are ejector guns? I've never even seen one, but readily admit my universe has been somewhat limited regarding side-lever guns.

SRH

I have a side lever Holland (right side) and it's not super ergonomic for me. Not bad by any means, but it's not my favorite. I do like the uniqueness of it as opposed to the ubiquitous top lever!

They are very sexy! A friend on mine just picked up a 1901 Henry Atkin with a sidelever.

Nobody has brought up that dreaded disease older guys get, Arthritis. I would think a side lever would allow you to use a gun for for longer than a top lever.

I had a discussion with Toby Barclay at the Vintagers in Rhode Island one year and he said left side levers worked better for right handed guys.

I have never used a side lever gun and have never bought one. They are relatively rare to find in good condition, especially left sided ones.

I think the side-lever patent is this one: 1862 - Needham patent 1544, rotating single-bolt snap-action side-lever

The oldest existing side-lever in the EM Reilly database is 17392 which per the Reilly date-chart would be very early 1872. It was a Terry Buffum gun and had I known then what I know now, it would reside chez moi.

http://www.amoskeagauction.com/110/132.php
serial #17392, 16 ga., 28" barrels with bright excellent bores choked improved cylinder in each. This shotgun shows period Birmingham black powder proofs with later London Nitro proofs and modern "70MM, 900 BAR" proofs. The barrels are generally over .030 everywhere except for one spot in one barrel that gets to .027". The action and locks show near full coverage scroll engraving with no makers name appearing on the action or locks. The barrel rib is engraved "E.M. REILLY & CO. NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON" and retains 95% beautifully restored brown finish with strong damascus pattern their entire lengths. The action and locks retain an even grayish patina with rebounding hammers and crisp locks. The checkered straight grip walnut buttstock and forend rate very good plus with a good deal of original finish, perhaps some added light oil and a beautiful toe and heel buttplate with checkered center panel. The shotgun locks up tight and features a 13 3/4" pull with drops of 1 1/2" and 2 1/2". A nice tight sidelever Reilly small bore double that seems like she's ready to go. (17147-143) {C&R} [Terry Buffum Collection] (1500/2500) SOLD FOR $2,185.00

Most of the side levers are side opener. For a very short time at the beginning of hammerless development, there were side levers that not only opened the gun, but also cocked it. I have a Lancaster side cocker (right side) and have had a number of Lefever side cockers. On the Lancaster the side lever both opens and cocks the gun. On Lefever, there is a thumb push opener and a separate (left side on all I have seen) side cocker.

Builder;
I (at 77 years of age) have the dreaded arthritis is both of my thumbs, and I can say with evidence that for a right handed person with arthritis a left handed side lever is not recommended.

I have a Stephen Grant right hand side lever, and yes it is easier to open than my top levers, considering arthritis. The problem with a left handed side lever for a right handed person is that when opening the gun with the LH sidelever the right thumb needs to move completely over the top of the stock grip and action and then press the side lever down enough to unlock the barrels from the action. My arthritis is in the joint of the thumb/hand portion--as is most often the case, and as a result the RH side lever works best as the RH thumb does not have to work alone to move the RH side lever as the entire top portion of the right hand can rotate slightly counter clockwise and cause the downward (while some of the fingers of the right hold the bottom of the action of the gun)movement of the side lever without stress the arthritic thumb/hand joint of the right hand.

I know Toby and for a youngster like him a left handed side lever likely works for his right hand. But I did not like a left hand side lever even before I came down with arthritis as the position of the left handed side lever interfered with my right thumb position during shooting sometimes. That issue and other issues were probably outlined by Stephen Grant himself to his customers when he took orders to build a side lever gun for a right handed person.

Now, I must say this that I rebuilt my 129 year old Stephen Grant side lever lock/unlocking mechanism including building a new action locking bolt, in order to remove excessive play in the side lever mechanism where it opens quickly upon depression of the side lever--as it would have worked on 10 Aug 1889 when it and its twin were handed over to the owner for the grouse shooting season on the 12th, as a matched pair.

Good afternoon.
I have an A. Agnew hammer gun with the side lever on the left side of the frame.

Sidelevers were the opening method of choice for Stephen Grant, Boss & Co (pre-Robertson), Blanch and a few others until the toplever won the argument and the public voted with their thumbs.
Grant produced a shed load of sidelever, hammerless ejectors let alone their hammerguns; Boss a few hammerless but mainly hammerguns; Blanch very few hammerless but most of their quality, in-house hammerguns.
I once went out on a limb and said that if a Blanch hammergun had a top lever, it was bought in finished from the trade but now I would be rather less dogmatic!
Most other Makers produced a few sidelevers in both hammer- and hammerless: I have sold two H&H 1st model Royals SLE's with them but they are nowhere so prevalent as the usual suspects above. I haven't to date ever seen a Purdey Beesley S/O action with an ORIGINAL sidelever but never say never!
With all due respect to Argo44, the patent that MOST of the quality sidelevers are built on is the Purdey so-called Thumblever patent 2nd type. This describes the spring that is fixed at the rear of the triggerplate, passes round the triggerbox on both sides and meets again just behind the upper end of the lever, linked to it with a swivel in most cases. The sidelever is to all intents the same as the thumblever but passes round to the side of the action instead of lying in the gap of the triggerguard.
The photo that you show is most likely a rather simpler mechanism mainly used by the lower end of the market which uses a simple flat spring lying under the lumps in the base of the action and operating on a lip on the front of the lever boss.
Nothing wrong with this mechanism but it is not in the same league as the Purdey designed version.
As to the usability of a left/right sidelever: I love shooting my sidelevers which are all right side. But I am a south-paw and find the RH version falls naturally to my 'young' (I wish!) left hand thumb.
Someone above mentioned the Grant lever cocking sidelever actions. These, along with the Lang patented versions, I find quite difficult to regulate for ease of use and once done require a thumb of spectacular strength to operate when both barrels have been fired.
Although not uncommon and naturally finished as Best guns should be, they were not a successful venture and only appear to have been made for a short period before barrel cocking took the trade by storm.
Perhaps the best side-cocking design, certainly the most successful in terms of sales, was the Gibbs & Pitt which was also available as a Daw's and top-lever. I have even seen an example retailed by Purdey.

The 'halcyon days' of the sidelever preceded widespread use of ejectors. I have three sidelevers - an 1894 Grant SLE, an 1886 SLNE Boss and an 1888 BLNE Powell - all with
'right hand' levers. The Grant is a 'pain' if you're trying to block hulls from being ejected.
For me, levers on the left (I've used a few) are much more 'ergonomic' on extractor guns.

Toby, thanks for the historical information on side-lever patents. Your firm is always the best at putting this sort of info out for the public.

You know that I'm an amateur and still learning all sorts of stuff. I put together a sort of abbreviate cheat sheet on patents that might be found on Reilly's. Checking the internet for verification is a hit and miss job. Breech loading shotgun break systems including side levers and indeed the whole entity of shotgun making was changing at such an incredible rate in the 1860;'s-1880's that trying to figure out what was an original patent and what was an improvement is difficult. I just sort of picked the earliest side-lever patent I could find.

I'm wondering if Reilly would have paid Purdey for a lot of side-levers. The extant Reilly's from that era, for instance, are mostly Jones underlevers and as I understand it that patent became public property in 1865. For instance Purdey Patent 1104 combined with Scott Patent 2752 didn't seem to become really common on Reilly's until after the 1879 expiration of the patent. Anyway, thanks as always for the information. It is a big help.

I have a pair of cased Boswell, Best BLEs 12ga with side levers on the right. These guns have been traded around the Carolina Vintagers for 20+ years after coming to Charlotte from the old Cape Outfitters.

We didn't have access to the Boswell records until years later when Chris Batha confirmed their provenance. I waited nearly 20 years to become the 4th owner of this pair within our club.

They are the only pair of BLE side levers I've seen. They are also the only side lever Boswells of any configuration that I've seen.

When the Boswells first showed up in the US, the early Internet listings were text. The pair was dirty and looking worn. GunsInternational, et al had not appeared.

Over the decades the pair were re-browned, properly cleaned and re-oiled. I am thinking of an article for the DGJ. The guns really have a great story to tell. I'll co-author with Matt Haney of the Georgia Vintagers.

I haven't posted photos on the BBS in years. I'll get some photos online so you can see them.

To the question of right side or left side, I am firmly right side for a right handed LOADER. I have used these guns as a pair in flurry shooting both as shooter and loader. A gentleman of the era would have used a loader on the grouse moors. When loading, the loader gets a fired gun, moves it to his right hip and opens the gun. With the gun tilted properly, the loader only has to drop his hand a few inches into the shell bag to expedite a quick reload. The right side lever makes this very fast with minimum motion.

I have loaded for the Vintage Cup Flurry events for many years. The only configuration that I found faster to load was a pair of SLE top lever, self-openers. (Probably why they won out in the market place)
Typically for a 4 minute flurry, I can load:

Top lever pair, 75-80 rds
Side lever pair 80-90 rds
Self-opener pair, 90-100 rds

I always start a Flurry event with 100 shells. We count the unfired shells and compare with the score. The best I loaded was 98 shots. I was down to my last 2 rds when the whistle blew.

Joe in Charlotte

Wow Joe, that�s impressive.

When I shot the Ripon challenge in 2017, I shot 28 play targets in one minute, shooting a trio.

To sustain that level of shooting and fire arm transference for four minutes is fantastic.
I am humbled.

Ah, but Joe has taken this particular challenge to a whole new level. He is not just any loader: he was loader to the late, great Bill Curry and other Shots of note.
He is also a scary good shot, compete against him at your own risk!
He also lent me several $100's to get my show stock out of bonded warehouse on my first show in the USA. Generally a very nice chap!

When I was at Gunmaker's Night in London, AG&L had the side lever Grant that is featured on their catalogue cover there for display.

Right side or left, anyone that get's to use that one is a blessed man.

Joe's input goes a long way in Why the top echelon side lever guns put the lever on the right. The lower Echelon guns such as my Clabrough built W Richards with the left levers were used by men who had to load their own guns.
Count me among this later number so I still find the left lever the best for "ME".

How much of a job would it be to transform a right side-lever to a left side lever?

They are mirror images. Probably need a different lever.

I emailed Akin about a left side for a Grant and was told, after several months and follow up emails, that they could or would not provide a left side lever. Never said why they could not so I let it slip through the cracks. I did consult with two very talented smiths, one in Texas and one in PA. One said trade it for a left side and the other said it could be done fairly easily, labor intensive. We were undecided whether to craft a new lever, keep the right when the Grant moved on down the road to another owner, or cut and weld. I leaned to a new lever. Cut and weld just did not sound good to me. I have since adapted to the right side and use old hulls, so less of a need to save for reloading. But I still think of this when I go out to shoot clays, and may just have a left side fabricated when I hit Lotto.

Happy holidays,
John

I wish Montana/Christine came along with her opinions!

I am almost sure she had a side lever ejector Grant that she mentioned gave her some hard time with the ejected shells.


JC

Hey,

If anyone wants to try the side levers, please let me know. I'll bring my guns. You'll have to provide RST 2 1/2" 8's or something similar. I will be happy to load for you.

I have loaded many times providing enough shots for a win. Some shooters won, some did not. Loaders never got a trophy, only the guns.

On a side note to Stan, I'll keep the pair with me whenever we could shoot together. I'll load.

However, If it is the Back Woods 500 bird pheasant shoot in Jan, well,,,, at that point you are on your own.

All best Joe

Sounds like lots of fun, Joe. I hope we can arrange that one day.

Thank you, SRH

A side pedal avoids the drilling through the action for the top lever spindle.

I rate that as an advantage for the marginal added strength it offers to the action and the savings in fitting time.

Great post! I'll find more about this in the forum.

The first gun I have with sidelever is my 28 ga Wiggan & Elliott. I love this system, more than toplever, and it is more strong that I though. Now, looking for another sidelever single barrel in 20 gauge.

I have two side levers and the lever is on the right for both of them. The first is a Stephen Grant hammer gun in 12 gauge and the second is a Rigby SLE in 16 Gauge. I am right handed with a left eye dominance so the side lever is in the right position for my left thumb. Whether the side lever is superior to the top lever is subjective, for me a side lever is a bit better than a top lever. I think the real difference is in aesthetics and I think a side lever is much more attractive than a top lever.

I prefer side or snap levers to top. Here is my favorite quail gun. German 24ga chamber sleeved to 28ga.

I`ve loaded Grant sidelever pairs many times on big days for people who could really shoot game ....the r/h lever was perfectly ok to use for myself right handed.All of those old guns were built to work as slick as possible and when in good order ,they still do!!!!