doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Tell me about the best wing shot........

............you ever knew. I'm referring to the shooter, not an individual instance of making a superb shot, but just what seems like a God-given ability.

Back in the 70s I was shooting doves a lot, and occasionally with my BIL, whose Dad owned a farm near ours. In those days there was a lot of dryland corn grown. Dove shoots could be spectacular at times. The limit was 12, but I confess that almost nobody abided by it. Not a brag, just being honest. Most accepted that it was worth paying the small fine if you were caught over the limit.

I knew this one fellow, probably 6-8 years older than me, who was an arrogant boor, loud and profane, self-aggrandizing, and just generally someone decent people avoided. He took up with my BIL's older brother. He hunted and fished a great deal, wherever and wherever he was allowed, and some places he wasn't allowed, like when he would slip into the warm water ponds across the river from us and shoot ducks on the Savannah River Site. The ponds were cooling off reservoirs for the coolant water from the nuclear reactors, and flowed on into the Savannah River after cooling. You could get a small boat up into the ponds from the river, shoot ducks and get out before site security heard you and arrived. He would kill big ducks by the scores in those warm ponds, during cold weather.

Anyway, back to his wingshooting ability. We were on a cornfield dove shoot one afternoon at my BIL's, and he was there. He had shown up without a gun or shells, for some crazy reason or another. Someone loaned him an "automatic" and shells. Never shot the gun before, but he proceeded to wear the doves out with it. He looked like he killed every bird that came within range of him, and lots that didn't. He didn't have a belt bag, and would walk out to pick up a dove, bend over and get him in his left hand, and someone would holler "Behind you, Bobby!". He would spin around, spot the bird streaking over, raise the gun to his shoulder with one hand and tumble the bird out of the sky, left hand never touching the gun and still holding the previous bird. This wasn't just once, he did it off and on all afternoon. He was a killing machine.

He's still living, but has had some serious health issues and probably can't shoot now like he could then. As I said, he was a "pill" to be around, but giving the devil his due, he was the most phenomenal wing shot I've ever been in the field with. Shame it was "wasted" on such a poor personality.

SRH

I thought it was you ?

Was "Bobby" one of those that used to fish Par Pond for the Friday night fish fry?

Personally, I never knowingly ate anything that came off the SRS or downstream of it. But there was a lot of game in that country for certain. And I've always wondered how many of the hogs that were cooked at the Carolina BBQ were from the Site.

I prefer to remember the gentlemanly great shots that I have known.
Unfortunate, isn't it, that so many loud mouth braggarts have some innate shooting talent. I never hunt twice with their kind.

Stan's story about bag limits rings true for me also, "back in the day". I started my wingshooting in the early '60's tagging along with some older guys. One of them was Billy Dabbs, Jr. His dad, "Mr. Billy" as everyone knew him, was one of the finest fellows from my own Dad's age group that I ever knew.

He grew watermelons, selling them downtown, hunted and fished within 2 miles of the city limits. His exploits on the Chickasawhay River running trot lines were always talked about in the barbershop. Mr. Billy was our Little League organizer and umpire. He carried us around to our ballgames in the back of his stepside Chevrolet pickups he wore out on a pretty regular basis. He was rougher on a vehicle than anyone I've ever known. I've seen his pickup squatted to near the pavement loaded down with watermelons.

He loved "bird" hunting for Bobwhite quail and always had a couple of bird dogs, though I never got to go with him. I think he probably wore completely out two Win. Model 12's, that he treated like a shovel or axe, laying them in the bed of his pickup to rattle around with whatever else was back there. I always marveled at two things: those guns always worked, and the big 20-box case of Western "Xpert" #8's he had sitting in the truck bed, when it was all I could muster to buy a couple of boxes

But he was death on doves. He was a great baseball player as a boy and later as a young man in a local semi-pro league, and had superb hand-to-eye coordination, that carried over into his shotgunning. He would just snap shoot and the doves would fall. Watched him knock down doubles many, many times. I always tried to find a spot in the field away from him a ways, because he dang near got everything that came by. We all loved him.
JR

Gee, when you are as bad a shot as me then that could be a lot of people.
I suppose one person would be my brother. Back in the 70's we did a lot of wild quail hunting. It was not impossible to find a dozen or more coveys a day. He always used a L.C. Smith field grade with a single trigger and 26" barrels that he paid $165 for at a local gunshop. He was death on a covey getting off the ground.
Another was a young guy that would always come to our gun club when we would shoot ZZ Birds. Now there were a lot of big time pigeon shooters that would show up and bring some very nice guns. I remember Purdey pigeon guns, Woodward's and Watson Brothers, Boss as well a fine assortment of over and unders.
I personally shot a SC3 Perazzi and a 32" Model 21. I would spend hours deciding what shells to use and how I would place them in my barrels to optimize the second shot.
This young boy would show up almost every shoot with a Beretta 391 auto and cheap Wall Mart shells and whip all us old guys every time.

"Best" shot is a small group of men in my case. Best rifle and pistol shot could have been an exhibition shooter but he was just very good with a shotgun. With a pistol, rifle with iron sights or even a scope he was precise to say the least. Watched him put five shots into the end of a coke can off hand at 100 yards, using iron sights, as fast as he could shoot with a Colt Woodsman .22. Then shoot another can at 200 yards off hand with his Winchester model 70 .300 H&H just a fast as he could. Open sights were nothing to him. He said he thought scopes were bad for shooting as shooters relied on magnification to offset lack of ability to aim. Then again he had the ability to tell the difference and make the difference.

Best clay target shooter was a many time All American Skeet shooter. He was great at Skeet or Trap. He could embarrass you from the hip. Never saw him hunt.

Best quail hunter I ever saw was my uncle. With a cheap Crescent double he could take doubles on every covey flush. Often he would take three birds with two shot. Take a pair with the first barrel and a single with the second. He was a quail killing machine, with cat like reflexes, trapped in a body which became hobbled by a boyhood case of Polio, Rheumatic fever and arthritis. Best dove shooter might have been my father. Never got to hunt with him until he was well into his 80's. Last time he shot 15 dove with 23 shells using a 16 gauge Fox AE I lent him at age 90. Still have the last two shell from that box.

I know there have been some other extremely good shots over the years. I'm decent but not in their league. In fact I wonder if they enjoy it as much as I do since it seem to come so effortlessly.

Not even close, jOe!

The best shotgunner I ever knew, I still know. But, I've never seen him shoot game. I know that he does, but I'm limiting my claims to what I've witnessed. However, I have witnessed him, John Michael Morris of Georgetown, SC, do some things you probably wouldn't believe without seeing it yourself. For example.........

I've seen him shoot a round of "regulation skeet" with his extended magazine Beretta from the hip, smoke all 25 birds, in 60 seconds without a miss. That's right, shooting and reloading on the run, timed with a stopwatch.

I've seen him shoot a perfect 25 straight on the skeet field while riding a bicycle, steering with his left hand and shooting from the hip with his right.

I have little doubt he would be the best shot on doves I've ever shot with, but I haven't, so I can't say so.

SRH

I kinda doubt it. He fished Par Pond many times for big bass, usually at night, but he snuck in and out, from the river. I assume the fish fry was something that was held on the site?

SRH

Not on site. In New Ellenton I think, but it's not something I attended. Sneaking into Par Pond from the River is a hell of a hike and a worse boat ride.

That's what they say, but there's no accounting for what some people will do to try and catch a really big bass. He went by boat, I do know that much.

I have fished in the mouth of one of the creeks, Steele Creek, that flows out of SRS, but never been very far up in there. Security is waaaay tougher now than it was back in the 60s and 70s. I have been tied up at the mouth of the Lower Three Runs fishing for big rockfish and seen Wackenhut Security riding four wheelers along the riverbank. Nobody sneaks in there anymore I don't think.

SRH

I never knew shooting stories could out do fishing stories...

Not sure where this Par pond is....you guys talking about sneaking into the Savanna River Site ?

Ever heard the old quip "The first liar doesn't stand a chance"?

Yes, that's the place. Right across the river from me, and up just a tad. When I was younger it was common for people to sneak in. The fine was not much more than a hand slap. Not so, anymore

SRH

Never knew the old guy, but a friend of mine hunted quail in the countryside around Athens, GA when he was in school at UGA. He stopped by a country store one day and happened to meet an old quail hunter from the area, and they became friends. Friend said he had never seen anybody kill quail on the rise as fast and as deadly as the old man. One day he asked him how he did it. Fella thought briefly and said he didn't know, and that all he did was shoot when he saw the bird's eye clearly.

Now, that's sharp vision and focus. If Ted Williams could see the stitching on a fast ball, I guess it's possible.

SRH

I�m not a great wing shot. Pretty good, but not great.
I routinely see the birds eye, their hackles, beaks.
Occasionally the eye comb on grouse.

Out to about 25 yards or so.

There�s more than eyesight to being a good wing shot. But it�s an advantage I guess. Great eye hand coordination and experience is probably more valuable.

Agreed, and I can do it on an incoming or crossing dove. But, if you've never shot a covey rise of wild bobwhites, it's hard to imagine the quickness with which they attain their full flight speed, and most are going away, either straight or at some angle.

Shooting clays can be good practice for that. I can often see the rings on a clay bird and many times can see the rotation. But, focusing on a flushing quail's eye is just over the top.

SRH

There isn't much chance of paddling, much less motoring up Steel Creek through the swamp. And it would be a long trip.

I worked there in the late 80s and 90s. My field crews were regularly seen jumping fences and hiking along roads within the SRS where we had all the security clearances. Various do-gooders would then race to the security posts to report them and dogs, helicopters, you name it were then scrambled very time although they knew damn well who it was.

Not sure what they were being so secure about - realistically, I'm not sure there was that much at risk, but it was a great place to do field work since no one messed with our experimental gear in the timber and clearcuts and the USFS was user helpful instead of mostly obstructive as is often the case in other USFS experience I've had.

40 years ago I knew some local duck hunters who'd sneak into the bomb plant up Steele Creek to shoot mallards in the winter. The warmed water attracted the birds. I never went with them, but accounts were that it was unbelievably good. As Stan stated, security was not too tight back then. Gil

The best wingshot was a deceased brother-in-law: Roger Duane Finney simply killed every bird he shot at with a Winchester Model 12 30" full choke non-vent rib gun that actually belonged to his Dad. The gun must have "fit" him, as he could just bring it up, shoot, and go pick up the dead bird. He could do that on Ducks, Pheasant, Prairie Chicken, and even on barn Pigeons.
He died some years ago, and had no sons, but he was the best.
Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE

That sounds pretty believable. I'd love to know what those ducks looked like through the eyes of a Geiger counter.

There are a ton of SRA/SRS stories that could be told. Some of them are even true It is a very strange place to be sure and it used to be a lot stranger.

I've have several friends that I've hunted with that think I'm a great wing shot. I told them they've led a sheltered life!! LOL
To be honest, I've seen a lot of really great shots on short/mid range range clay targets, but the long range target shooters are the ones that impress me. It's a level of expertise that's hard to learn. Breaking targets (consistently at 70-100 yards) is amazing.

It's been a good bit for me, but the only thing that I could come up with for a big covey rise was to nibble at the edge. It was tough to figure out what was going on in the middle.

My dad and I did a lot of dove shooting for 40 years with a variety of individuals. The best were those who consistently managed to knock down a lot of doves regardless of conditions.

Charles R. was a guy who drove a pulpwood truck and favored heavy 12ga autoloaders. He inherited a lot of land and he could have retired before he hit 40, but driving a truck was what he did, so he kept driving. My dad also was a fine shot, again he favored heavy autoloaders with long barrels. We shot in any weather, high wind, wet, cold, didn't matter. Charles and my dad always put birds on the ground.

I'll admit to being a little discouraged in the past few years as far as thinking of those I considered outstanding shots. When I've read accounts of dove shooters lately, there have been a fairly large percentage who claim to have killed one bird with one shot or thereabouts, and have gotten their limit with barely more than a half box of shells. I think about those blustery days with the wind howling, the birds coming in high with a tailwind, twisting and turning over the field. If those shooters can average close to one bird per shell in those conditions, my hat is off to them. Maybe we weren't such good shots after all back in the day.

You shouldn't feel discouraged Steve. Dove shooting varies so much from day to day, farm to farm, and from early season to late, that there is no consistency in it at all. Just when you think you've got the dove thing figured out, they fool you again.

My 58 year dove shooting career has been one of mediocre shooting, interrupted by periods of catastrophic failure.

SRH

The best one I met was a humble blue collar bachelor man in his 50s.

When he was younger in the 1960s, his hobby was taunting the Law into car chases and running from them. Dukes of Hazard style. As he aged, he mostly spent time around a skeet field as a hobby and social event. But then he developed a bit of a flinch, and started only shooting a Browning 425, with .410 tube set, and no front bead on the gun. And he became a wizard. He overcame his flinch, and when he would knock the tubes out and go hunting, dove shooting, or sporting clays with the 12 bore he was the best all around wingshot I ever knew.

The finest shot I ever shot with was the best sportsman
also. Took same amount of she's that limit was & always limited out. If he he got ahead of you he would not shoot again till you caught up. Always shot quail roosters, no hens. Remington 1148 410.
Miss him still.Was also great centerfielder in area ball leagues.

There�s a certain athleticism to good shooting.
I noticed that a person can get very good within their comfort zone.

Just don�t take the shots you normally miss.

When I started shooting skeet low gun, 5 paces back,with the intent of breaking every one before the stake, It made me look like a savant on red grouse, never having shot them before.
Adding practicing taking them out the back with a 180 degree turn about, made me look like a genius.

I�m not.
I�m a student of wingshooting, and I practice.
That�s it.
Identify and practice what you think you�ll encounter.

A long term friend is one of those blessed with all the right stuff for shooting. He excels in all shooting I've ever seen him do. He made a career in the Border Patrol and did well at that (thank you for your service, David). Most recently he has been field trialing a dog and shooting for other's dogs in field trials. It is the shooter's responsibility to make the shot after the dog has pointed, held, and the bird is flushed such that the retrieve is the most difficult possible for the bird's flight path. By so doing, the dog gets to show its best stuff to the judges. Putting the bird down is a given; doing it so as to best show the dog requires some very fast and accurate mental gymnastics.

DDA

Lots of truth in this statement. But, it requires much mental discipline, and especially so with little guns like the .410.



SRH

That is how you take a high percentage but doubt you'll become a better shot.
The best wingshot I know is my friend and bird hunting mentor Walter. Grew up
on and still is farming the same place. Hunted everyday after school when you could just go hunting anywhere on yours or neighbors farms as you please. Back when bobs were everywhere. In the all times we hunted together I have only seen him miss 1 bird and that was after he rarely carried a gun anymore. A pure right to left crosser that got up late. He looked down and said "how did I miss that bird". He always killed cockbirds and taught me to do the same. Bought a sweet sixteen when he got out of the service in '62 and just killed everything.

I love late season Dove hunting above anything else. Big birds, strong fliers, educated by weeks of hunting and tail winds to make their flights a true adventure. For those I leave the .410 home and break out a 32� Sterlingworth. But my shell ratio still goes way up. I don�t look for high percentage shots. What do you learn from taking them? Nothing. If I want safe shots I�ll take my 42 to the Sporting Clays range. Be proud of knowing the difference between safe, easy, and much harder, more frustrating it also more rewarding hunting.

Stan,
Best wing shooter I ever ran across was our shooting coach on the Air Force Trap team. When it came to dove shooting, Sandy only shot a 410 o/u kriegoff, limit was 10 birds and he would shot 10 to 11 shells. A bad day was 12 shots.

Some interesting responses. Thanks to all who have.



You may be right. But nobody says you have to spend a whole season shooting like that. There are days I try to stretch my "perimeters", and other days I decide to cull all shots, except those I think I have a high percentage on, and shoot for a high average.

It's all much fun, but I really prefer to hone my skills on long shots on the sporting clays field. Cripples don't matter there, and what you learn carries over to the dove field very well. If the speed, distance and angle are the same, the lead will be the same, whether it's a clay bird or a gray rocket.

SRH

My friend and hunting partner introduced me to wingshooting. Through some hard times he guided on a large NYS preserve. Conservatively, he killed 10k phez. His gun was a 1300 Win XTR slug gun with 24" bbl and rifle sights.

He averaged well over 70% through all the years we hunted together. Truthfully, it was closer to 80%, and he did not pick his shots or worry about his kill % as do some folks. Witnessed too many kills at what I still consider "ridiculous" distances to recount. He used factory #7.5 trap loads almost exclusively. He'd call his shots, eg. "head shot", and was nearly always right. I know this b/c I cleaned birds. He'd even tell me I hadn't killed a bird we both fired at. Most always he was right about that too, b/c I usually used B&P small #6s shot size. Again, I was the one cleaning birds.

One occasion he forgot to bring shells and I had a box of fiber wad high-brass RP in #7.5s. That was the only time I saw him have trouble killing stuff.

Near the end of our times at the place I'd improved to the point a 16 ga M-12 "full" was useful in my hands. One day, after killing stuff out to and beyond 50 yds with B&P #5s, he said "nice shooting Pasty" (his term of endearment). To this day, that is the most meaningful compliment I've ever received.

My dad was the best shot on doves that I have ever seen. He grew up on a farm near Buena Vista, GA. He and his brothers shared an old Belgian clunker hammer double growing up. They would flip a coin to see who shot first. If the first one eventually missed a shot they would have to hand it over to the next one until he missed. They would carry the gun to school on the bus and walk home hunting on the way (This was in the 30's). By the time I came along Daddy shot a 12 ga. Remington 1100 26" barrel IMP CYL for doves. He always took 4 boxes of shells. One cold late season day with the wind howling I saw him kill 98 with that 4 boxes. Many of his shots were birds that others had passed up because they were too tall. I was his retriever in those days (about 7 years old). He was a pretty good skeet shot as well- shooting on a civilian team from Ft. Benning. Unfortunately he suffered a stroke in 1969 that left his right arm paralyzed and that ended most of his shooting.