doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Major players in Birmingham?

Who were the major players in Birmingham who supplied trade guns to other makers for rebranding? Is there anyway to tell who made what for the trade guns, any tell tale signs or nuances to reveal the maker?

What period are you interested in? Before the 1870s and the wider use of steam powered machinery, parts and/or whole guns were hand-made and supplied by hundreds of small operations and individual outworkers, mostly operating in Birmingham�s gunmaking quarter. Several makers there became quite large operations, with hundreds of workers operating more and more machinery. By the end of the century several large firms supplied a great many guns to be re-branded. However, my knowledge gets spotty after 1870, so someone else will have to chime in.

In some cases the inside of locks, actions, and barrels may be signed or have makers� marks that can identify firms or individual craftsmen. Some makers� record books, if they have survived, identify the individuals that supplied various parts. Do you have a specific gun in mind that you are trying to trace?

It would be basically 1900 to about the second world war. It's on a Scottish double I suspect is a trade gun that has been rebranded.

A good place to start is with Webley & Scott. A good way to start with them is to buy some/all of the reprint catalogs now available and study, study, study the mid-grade guns. Originals cataogs are collector items and are pricy. When you can identify a W&S at a few paces you are on your way.

There is plenty more, but this will get you rolling.

DDA

Probably exaggerated but I wouldn�t be surprised to find Webley & Scott had a hand in 60-75% of the guns built not only in Birmingham but also throughout the UK, excepting London where for the sake of illustration I�d guess 25% to 40% had some W & S work.

I have several Birmingham boxlocks that were originally proof marked in the mid-1930s with barrels and actions that I believe were supplied to the trade by Joseph Asbury. They are all marked under the barrels with a small "J.A."

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=458496

Here is a link to the A.A. Brown firm history.

There is a reference to Joseph Asbury in the paragraph just above the photo of the A.A. Brown cricket team.

https://www.aabrownandsons.com/history.html

I agree on the Webley and Scott guns

Was Midland gun co and Holloway and Naughton involved in the trade guns? The gun doesnt look like a Webley, but more like the later mentioned, with the three pins on the frame.

Holloway and Naughton was a maker of other guns for others. I have a James Kirk sle made by them. Also, Bentley and Playfair , later with Hollis, made the majority of their guns for others.

Posted by Mr. Standfast on the Purdey knife line which one suspects gets closer to the truth in 19th century England and in Belgium:

"The Birmingham and Li�ge trade operated by an immensely complex network of the firm's factory work, subcontractors, outworkers etc. A self-employed tradesman might rent bench space etc. in the factory, and sell anything from all to none of his product to his host. I may have scratched the surface of the complexities which existed."

So, as a follow up question, who was building boxlocks for Westley Richards in the 1960s? I have one with no other markings except Westley Richards, but it lacks the traditionally styled wide WR top lever. I'm curious who might actually have constructed it for them.

Sounds like you have the "new Model" Rem. Westley built plenty of guns using both methods. Best regards,
Steve

I had a Field SLE (Baker ejectors) that has "J.A." stamped on the underside of the barrels as well.

Steve:

It's a lovely gun, scalloped action, fully engraved and very nice wood. I just had never seen a WR without the wide top lever and wondered if it was something they'd had made for them.

I actually found it in England and had it imported. Was my 60th birthday present to myself (being single at the time allowed me to do such things without having to explain to anyone).

Rem

S Wright and Sons, Was a major player in the English/Birmingham Guntrade,1919-1972.
Here are some of their customers as taken from their ledgers!
W.J,Jeffery, E.J.Churchill,[Regal boxlock], Gallyon and Sons, R.B.Rodda and Sons, Holland & Holland[Northwood Boxlock],
Cogswell & Harrison, [Various box locks], Blanton,
George Hinton and Sons, Charles Hellis and Sons, Russell Hillsdon, John Dickson[Capital and Caledonian models],K.D Ratcliffe,
Salter & Varge, B.E.Chaplin Ltd.
I visited Wright's .in 1970's and was very impressed with the high standard of their work. At that time they were owned by, Harris and Sheldon Group; who also owned, Webley and Scott, W.& C.Scott and Churchill.

P.S.[Ref Recent post; Kirk Merrington]
Wright's/Churchill is where Kirk Merrington started his very successful gun making career. [See page 439, The house of Churchill by Don Masters]]
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