doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com American Shotguns-Stock Bending?

Yes, but they are not considered to be American Black Walnut. They are American black walnut. But, we may be mincing words here.

SRH

Stan, I think you are mincing. American Walnut is just a pseudonym for black walnut so far as I have ever heard. There are lots of other walnuts in North America (natives) but I don't think anytning other than black (Juglans nigra) is used for gunwork.

Other species of American Walnut trees are indeed used to make gunstocks. Eastern Black Walnut is the most commonly used because it is the most widely grown species (in North America). But even white walnut (Butternut) is suitable for gunstocks. Ever heard of Claro (California Black Walnut, i.e., juglans hindsii) being used for gunstocks?

Here's a reference to some, but not all of the species of walnut native to North America:

http://www.mast-producing-trees.org/2009/11/native-walnuts-of-north-america/

Heard of them all. But, when American Black Walnut is specified, Juglans Nigra is what is expected.

Just because a tree is shipped from Turkey, or wherever, and planted and grown in America, does not make it American Black Walnut.

SRH

Geez! Of course not. Black walnut is not English Walnut even though both are grown in North America. But California Black Walnut is very commonly referred to as Claro, and Claro is very commonly used to produce gunstocks.

Here is the question I was responding to. The word BLACK isn't in the question:



American Black Walnut can be Eastern, Texas, Arizona, or California Black Walnut since all of it is most commonly found in America. There is no distinct and separate species known as American Walnut or American Black Walnut. Those terms are simply misnomers commonly used for Eastern Black Walnut. There is a system of binomial nomenclature used by botanists to differentiate different species.

Yeah, but you said this......."I'd assume that American Walnut is any species or cultivar of walnut grown in America. "

Not quite, keith. You can't have it both ways.

SRH

Again, if a juglans regia tree is grown in California, it would be American, even though there is no such species as American Walnut, as far as botanists are concerned. Juglans Regia grown in France is called French Walnut, and when the same species is grown in Turkey, it is called Turkish Walnut. The same species (juglans regia) is also called English, Circassian, Carpathian, and Persian too.

I recently cut up an English Walnut tree for gunstock blanks that I know was grown from English Walnut (juglans regia) seeds that were brought to Pennsylvania from California. It is an American walnut tree, but it is not native to North America.

American walnut certainly is any species of walnut grown in America, and that would have to include South America as well. Canadians are Americans, and so are Brazilians. That isn't attempting to "have it both ways." It isn't hard to understand, but it is hard to convince you if you refuse to understand.

In my experience English walnut is easier to bend than black walnut and seems to hold better as well. I have bent both successfully but English walnut is usually more co-operative. Straight grips seem to bend easier as well. If the bend is done correctly you should not be able to tell it was done and should not negatively affect collector value. All that said, each piece of wood is an individual and some bend easier than others. After bending quite a few you can tell when the wood does not want to go any further....that is a very good place to stop.

It isn't hard to understand, but it is hard to convince you if you refuse to understand.
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I'm not refusing to understand anything, keith. My point is that most of the world associates American Walnut with Eastern Black Walnut. Do a search and that is what you get. You're not getting that the difference is whether or not the "W" is capitalized or not. Of course an English Walnut tree grown in America is American ............by "birth". But, it's not the same as American Walnut, with the capital "W".

Here's an example of one search result.


Black Walnut
PHOTO
black walnut lumber
DESCRIPTION Black Walnut heartwood is rich dark brown to purplish-black and is usually straight grained. Wavy or curly grain is sometimes present. Texture is coarse.
Weight averages about 40lbs per cu. ft.
Typical Width = 4" to 10"
Typical Length = 5' to 16'
Note: long, wide boards are hard to find clear.
COUNTRY OF
ORIGIN North America
BOTANICAL NAME Juglans Nigra
OTHER NAMES American Walnut, Virginia Walnut, Canaletto, Black Hickory Nut
MECHANICAL PROPERTIES This medium density wood is tough and hard. It has moderate bending and crushing strengths. Stiffness is low. It has good steam bending characteristics.
WORKING PROPERTIES Black Walnut can be worked with hand or power tools without difficulty. Moderate blunting effect on cutters. Takes nails and screws well. Glues satisfactorily. Finishes to a high polish.
DURABILITY Very durable. Sapwood is susceptible to attack by powder post beetle. Heartwood is resistant to preservative treatment and biodegradation.
SEASONING Dries slowly with tendency to honeycomb. Requires care to avoid checking and degradation. Small movement.
USES The standard for gunstocks in the U.S. Extensively used in high-quality furniture, cabinetmaking, boatbuilding, musical instruments, clock cases, turning and carving. Sliced or cut for paneling, veneers.
COMMENTS Can be found in burls, crotches, burrs, etc.

Wear yourself out with it. I'm done. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

SRH

Stan, you were done when you couldn't give me a binomial nomenclature latin name for a species which doesn't exist, namely American walnut. You can call it "American Walnut" or "Big Tree With Nuts and Nice Wood", but juglans nigra is still Eastern Black Walnut. And California Black Walnut, or Claro is also an American Black Walnut, but the species is juglans hindsii. The fact that you and a number of folks on the internet call Eastern Black Walnut by another generic name does not make it correct, and it certainly does not make it the only native American walnut species. Similarly, when much of the world thinks of "Americans" they are thinking of U.S. Citizens, but they are incorrect to forget about the hundreds of millions of Americans from Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Venezuela, Peru, Columbia, etc.

But I do understand your reluctance to admit the obvious. We saw it last week when the Preacher said he doesn't tell lies, right after thanking jOe for an apology which jOe never made. I posted his exact unedited words along with those from jOe affirming that he had never made the apology, but you still went out on a limb in Gregory's "Thanks Drew" thread to inform all that you had no doubt about the preacher's integrity. On second thought, I guess I don't understand how someone can be so obstinate as to blind ones-self to an obvious black and white truth, or an equally obvious falsehood. I've come to expect that from some here, but that one blind-sided me.

I got over learning that Santa Claus wasn't real, so I'll probably get over this too.