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How desirable are pre war Commercial Mauser 98 B�s in 8x60 MM?

Ghostrider,
All commercial( Oberndorf) Mausers are desirable, especially if un molested. If modified, desirability depends upon the work done. I believe Graf has PRVI ammo, but it is easy to load for. With proper adjustment, it is likely that 8x57 dies can be used. This cartridge is a very fine one.
Mike

Unfortunatley its not original. I will post pictures shortly to get feedback on the plus and minuses as well as thoughts on value. I really like the rifle but want to determine ball park value. Heck it might not even be a B

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Sorry I should have wiped down before taking pictures. I can take additional pictures as needed.

Were Krupp steel barrels common on these?

Passed thru the Suhl proof facility in 1930 in the final state. Yes, Krupp was as common as could be. I believe the Krupp tube was sourced from the Romerwerke concern/(�Rohmer & Company, Suhler Mechanical Buchsenmacherei/Rohmerwerk Waffenteilifabrik?).

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Thank you Raimey for that information. Any additional information is greatly appreciated. I am completly new to Commercial Mausers and wish to learn as much as I can on this rifle.

Ghostrider,
I made comments on GGCA forum. I only viewed 1 page of photos and didn't see the underside of the barrel. It may have been rebarreled rather than rechambered, as I opined there. In any case it became 8x60 in 1930 as stated by Raimey. If the barrel has the serial number, please post a photo. If there is no serial number, or if it is a different font; it is likely a new barrel.
Mike

I did see that the barrel is marked 7,8.

Is the number "31" on any other components? What is/are the stamp/stamps to the right of these marks on the receiver?




I'd say a rebarrel.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

31 is not marked anywhere else on the rifle. All parts are marked with the last 2 or 3 digets of the Serial number. I looked the barrel over under a 10x and could not find a serial number. I think the feedback i have recieved that this is a re barrel is correct if I am to understand that the reciever by S/N predates the barrel.
I really have no knowledge of Mausers but find after doing some reseach that there may be a possibility that the owner in Germany might have had it rebarreled in order to meet the requirements of the Treaty of Versailles? Hense the 8x60 mm. Just a therory but if a rifle was to be in compliance it could not me a military caliber if I understand correctly. Raimey here is another picture I think the marks in the picture is due to the lighting and nicks.

Yes, that is possible but it passed thru the Suhl proof facility in March of 1930 in the final or completed state. Easily could be an older action w/ a new Krupp tube. I assume there isn't a name atop the rib?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I have looked the barrel over closley and there are no markings unfortunately.

I believe the rifle was rechambered in 1930, rather than rebarreled. My reasoning is posted in the thread in the GGCA forum.
Mike3

So where's the Crown over R Ford. Or was the wares of Mauser not subject to the repair portion of the German law?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Thank you Mike for sharing this information. For those that would like to visit the post on the GGCA Forum here is a link.

http://www.germanguns.com/upload/showthread.php?1882-Commercial-mauser-8x60-MMs

So Ford, let me see if I understand you correctly. The Treaty of Versailles over-rode the German proof rules for 1912 for which a tube of the same diameter can have a chamber modification, i.e. material can be removed internally & it does not warrant a Crown over R repair mark?

Also, the 8x57 IR/IRS and the 8x60 have identical characteristics?

Is the above the gist of your statement?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
That is a consideration, but there were some rechamberings that didn't require the repair proof. Normalizing a 9.3x72R "D" version to "N" was one, normalizing an 8.15x46R in a similar manner was another. I think rechambering to 8x60 was another. I am not 100% sure, but I am sure it would not have been rebarreled only to change from 8x57I to 8x60. Don't forget, the whole purpose of the 8x60 was to allow this, also, times were as hard in 1930 Germany, as in the US( if not harder). Maybe you could ask Axel to settle it for us. Also even though I didn't base my opinion on it, the Treaty of Versailles over rode a lot of things.
Mike

I am not knowledgable to comment on the proof marks but after reseaching it seems that a driving factor for the 8x60 seemed to be the option to rechamber rather than rebarrel. I suppose we may never know for sure on this rifle, but I have a box of 8x60 mms and hope to shoot this rifle soon.
It has two rear sight blades. Would this rifle be set up for 50 and 100 meters by chance? I guess I will know shortly.

Here is a better picture of the proof marks if it helps.

Ghostrider,
I suggest that when you fire the rifle the first time, see if a 323" bullet will easily enter the neck of the fired case. Mauser Oberndorf, made the neck area of 8x60 chambers large enough for .323" bullets and informed others of what they were doing. If the rechambering/rebarreling was done somewhere else(Suhl,etc), they may or may mot have followed Mauser's lead. The above test will show which bullet to use. With regard to the sights, only shooting it will show how it is sighted; whether it is for 8x57I or 8x60, and what distance.
Good shooting.
Mike

Ghostrider,
Thanks for the better photo. It looks less like it was refinished than the other photos. The 60 and 3/30 still look like a different font than the other stamps.
Mike

I will do as suggested and post the results.
The Metal I am sure has been redone although not over buffed as some I have seen. Cannt decide if I like the jeweling or not yet.

Raimey,
Go to the GGCA site and read Axel's comments, I stand corrected, although I'm a little confused how it started as a post WW1 Mod S, with a 1912 serial number, I think he meant it would have been Mod S if it had been post war.
Mike