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2 members (Replacement, 1 invisible),
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Forums10
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 973 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 973 Likes: 23 |
From my reading, knife makers use muriatic acid on bare damascus blades. Their methods produce fantastic contrast, without texturing the surface. They also use ferric chloride, depending on the blades material concentration.
What about that process makes it unsuited for damascus barrels? I don't see muriatic acid discussed as viable, but I do not understand why that is the case.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,463 Likes: 207
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,463 Likes: 207 |
Maybe it's too hard to get out of it's hiding places, or to "kill" it. Or maybe it does bad things to solder. Mike
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,405
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,405 |
Though the acid will etch and show the pattern, it does nothing for protecting the metal finish like bluing would.
B.Dudley
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,124 Likes: 195
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,124 Likes: 195 |
OH! Come on people that name for Hydrochloric Acid went out of use the same time we stopped using leaches for high blood pressure.
The only lessons in my life I truly did learn from where the ones I paid for!
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463 Likes: 212
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463 Likes: 212 |
....Their [knife makers] methods produce fantastic contrast, without texturing the surface.... I think if the blades of decent 'damascus' knives are looked over and felt, there might be quite a bit of texturing. I have noticed stronger acids used to make rustic finishes, ferric chloride might be used quite diluted with multiple exposures and finishing to get to the desired look. Only thoughts and the pool acid could be diluted, but slower might be a bit better.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,992 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,992 Likes: 402 |
Some browning solutions use Hydrochloric acid as well as Ferric Chloride. From the damascus knives I have seen it looks like they omit the browning and just etch. Some people pre-etch damascus tubes thinking it brings out the pattern better, I do not. I try to keep the etch to a minimum. My browning solution contains ferric chloride and I believe that the solution itself gives some contrast. I find browning to be a bit frustrating but rewarding at the same time.
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 973 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 973 Likes: 23 |
Though the acid will etch and show the pattern, it does nothing for protecting the metal finish like bluing would. Good point. Once you etch off the bluing from the steel portion surfaces, there isn't much bluing left, depending on the iron/steel ratio.
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 973 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 973 Likes: 23 |
Some people pre-etch damascus tubes thinking it brings out the pattern better, I do not. I agree with you. My browning solution contains ferric chloride and I believe that the solution itself gives some contrast. Do you mix your own, or buy off the shelf? If you buy, what do you use? I find browning to be a bit frustrating but rewarding at the same time. More than a bit frustrating.
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 973 Likes: 23
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 973 Likes: 23 |
....Their [knife makers] methods produce fantastic contrast, without texturing the surface.... Only thoughts and the pool acid could be diluted, but slower might be a bit better. I'll try some scrap, with varying dilutions, and see what happens. I've got a set now that's been completely blued, no pattern.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,850 Likes: 150
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,850 Likes: 150 |
OH! Come on people that name for Hydrochloric Acid went out of use the same time we stopped using leaches for high blood pressure. We still use the leaches here and muriatic acid is a common labeling for off the shelf stuff at stores like HomeDepot and Lowes DIY type stores. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Crown-1-Gallon-Muriatic-Acid/3024039It'll bring the pattern up as will most any acid. It'll etch as well just like any acid will. Some more & quicker than others. I still blue or brown and bring out the pattern w/a very weak ferric chloride dunk, rinse and wet carding betw rusting cycles. It's not fast but it's not a knife blade either.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 347 Likes: 5
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 347 Likes: 5 |
Muriatic means a specific percentage formulation does it not? Like 18% or so.
Sam Welch
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,850 Likes: 150
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,850 Likes: 150 |
Industrial grade is 30 to 35% soln Muriatic is about 20 to 30% soln
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,124 Likes: 195
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,124 Likes: 195 |
Kutter we do indeed use Medical leaches here BUT as I said NOT for treating high blood pressure. Nowadays used for removing pooled blood from operation or trauma sites. Also removing face bruising such as black eyes of brides to be before the wedding so they do not appear in the photographs for ever though this service does not come cheap. You folks have a differing system for purchasing Acids, on this side of the pond you purchase from Laboratory suppliers in standard concentrated form then dilute to the percentage you require using distilled water. That means one bottle making as many percentage cuts as required, at a far lower cost.
The only lessons in my life I truly did learn from where the ones I paid for!
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,850 Likes: 150
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,850 Likes: 150 |
A gal of Muriatic up at Lowes is $9.98 That lasts me forever.
No leaches for sale unless you go to the Bait Shop. Minnows are prefered most times.
If I wanted to purchase the Industrial Grade Hydrochloric Acid (over 30% soln) over the counter,,then I need a note from Mom, a Police escort and Homeland Security clearance. Places that will even sell it to a person walking in off the street are rare anymore.
But it seems I can simply buy it off of Ebay with no problem along with most any other chemical. Makes no sense, but what does anymore.
There's a 'Heavy Industrial' grade also (a higher % soln) but I think that is harder to store, transport and use w/o some special containers and conditions. Maybe it'd make your bbls disappear quick! Muriatic works fine for what I need and I don't have to fiddle around with it. Interesting how they do things differently around the big marble..
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,340 Likes: 389
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,340 Likes: 389 |
Muriatic means a specific percentage formulation does it not? Like 18% or so. There is no hard and fast specific percentage concentration for Muriatic acid. You may find it at 31.5% or you may find it at 20% or 14.5%. The stronger stuff is more often sold for industrial applications and the weaker stuff is sold for things like descaling and cleaning lime buildup in swimming pools, hot tubs, shower stalls, etc. Both Hydrochloric acid and Muriatic acid are HCl, but pure Hydrochloric acid will be clear and Muriatic will usually have a yellowish color due to impurities such as iron or traces of Sulphuric acid. So the term Muriatic acid isn't really an archaic term, but one that denotes a level of purity. Muriatic is generally cheaper because it is generally less concentrated and less pure, but it all depends upon where you buy it. I'm fortunate enough to live near a chemical supply company that will sell small quantities of higher concentration stuff for far less than the watered down versions you might buy at Lowe's or Home Depot. Remember the rule for mixing acids and water when diluting. Always go in alphabetical order. A for Acid and W for Water. Pour the Acid slowly into the Water, because if you pour water into concentrated acid, it may sputter and splash back at you.
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,702 Likes: 99
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,702 Likes: 99 |
I have a slick finish on the concrete in my carport. Water condenses on it when the weather changes. I washed it down with muriatic acid to etch a better tread on it...Geo
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 75
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 75 |
Radio Shack has a board etching solution that I use on my damascus knives I make. The time in the solution is the determining factor of how much texture Im left with.
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 322 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 322 Likes: 11 |
Radio Shack has a board etching solution that I use on my damascus knives I make. The time in the solution is the determining factor of how much texture Im left with. Good looking blades! I really like the one on the left.
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