|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums10
Topics38,445
Posts544,841
Members14,406
| |
Most Online1,258
Mar 29th, 2024
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,826 Likes: 12
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,826 Likes: 12 |
My friend owns one, and will sell it. The stock could be bent to your specs. He traded a 10,000$ Kolar for it and can't hit shi! with it. I've owned at least 30 different Damascus barreled SxSs and never had a gunsmith check one out. They shoot just fine. I will admit one blew up in the chamber once. My fault - thinking it was Pyrodex, I loaded 94grs of PB. It lasted four shots. A normal load of PB was 18grs. I received 23 stiches in my forearm and went back to the club and kept shooting- a different gun and shells. There's no way I blame the Damascus barrels and buy only guns with them. They are a art form we'll never see again. If Damascus is so unsafe, why do the British still proof Damascus shotguns and rifles. Rifles have much more pressure than shotguns. Do you need brass shells - NO. Your gun is fine the way it was built. Shoot and enjoy it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Paul;
Was that 94 grains of PB actually weighed or was this a 94 grain volume measure. PB is considerably less dense for a given volume than Black & Pyrodex is normally measured by volume, not weight. A 94 grain black powder volume measure would be around 54-55 grains of PB which is still pushing a triple load @ 18 grains. Unfortunately smokeless powders are not nearly so forgiving of overloads as is Black.
As you stated Brass shell are not "Needed" to enjoy Damascus barreled guns, but they are an option if desired. All modern day brass shells that I am aware of fit standard chambers, they just require oversize wads except for those turned cases made to use standard wads.
Biggest problem with brass hulls & smokeless is that except for those using a 209 primer many will not give good ignition with smokeless. Years ago I loaded brass shells with an Italian imported powder named Nike, with good results, acquired it through Alcan. A fast powder such as Red Dot will normally work well also. Just be certain the wads are a tight fit in the case & that you get a good seal on the top wad.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,153 Likes: 317
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,153 Likes: 317 |
Stan, not .410 but here are a couple of 36 gauge black powder proof hammer guns that might get close to your dimensions...just for fun  ============================================================= 23746 EM Reilly 36 ga black powder proofed pre 1900 (actually 1881 per Reilly SN chart) back action, hammer gun; beavertail forestock American and British 410 shotguns - Gabriel https://books.google.com/books?id=PNZ0f7...gun&f=false 
Last edited by Argo44; 09/05/18 11:26 AM.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Argo;
Are these guns True 36 gauge?
I know that .410's were sometimes labeled both as 12mm as well as 36 gauge, both of which are incorrect. A .410 bore would be 10.41 mm, the 12 mm is approximately chamber diameter on the .410, not bore size. A 36 gauge is a nominal .506" (12.85 mm) diameter. I think a few were made, though not common. The 32 gauge is found more often with a nominal bore of .526" (13.36 mm)
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,153 Likes: 317
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,153 Likes: 317 |
I donno ... but the book can be consulted. I've just always admired that particular Reilly "36 gauge"...since I started collecting photos of Reilly's, read Stan's post and remembered it. Nice info on the difference between .410 and 36 gauge...I'll save it. Thanks.
Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Good condition damascus is just as safe if not safer than early fluid steel barrels. Have your tubes checked by a knowledgeable doublegun smith, feed them an appropriate diet of low pressure shells and enjoy.
The reasons for all the warnings regarding damascus tubes are well documented. The goal of the firearms manufactures then and today is still the same....sell NEW guns.
Ignore j0e....he shoots a Bennelli. True I own two Benelli shotguns...but I have owned, shot and hunted with a Purdey muzzle loader a W C Scott muzzle loader and several damascus cartridge guns a WIlliam Powell muzzle loader and a few more. To say something that's 100 years old plus is as safe as a modern gun is stupid. The ones that blow just blow...when no one can say. It's like Russian roulette just with more than 5 empty chambers. Was I scared...no I wasn't scared.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,033 Likes: 45
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,033 Likes: 45 |
"The ones that blow just blow...when no one can say."
That is a complete myth.
You ever read the many threads on this? The Bell articles? Drew's Damascus site?
You show us a 'mysterious Damascus failure' and we'll tell you why it failed.
Obstruction
Overloaded cartridge
Nitro Sporting load in a blackpowder era gun
Failure to STOP shooting when the gun gave ample warning of something wrong
Usually, the Damascus failures are easier to explain than when a new modern gun bearing Italian superior proof fails with new CIP specification shells. That happens too.
Risk cannot be entirely eliminated from this endeavor, but there's such a thing as seeing threats where none exist.
"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Dr. Drew loves Damascus barreled guns...yes sir re.
He just doesn't own or shoot one.
Over the years there's been several Damascus barreled guns shown on here that had just blown for no reason.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,412 Likes: 313
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,412 Likes: 313 |
THAT is an outrageous lie Joe, and you should know better. L.F. Cox sent me an email probably 8 years ago asking if I had any Damascus guns. I explained then that I had sold most of my vintage SBTs and doubles to finance our Guatemala ministry, including a damascus Parker GH, and briefly had no damascus guns. I shot my 1906 OE 16g Smith yesterday at Ben Avery with 3/4 oz. handloads, and have done so every week since Spring. Ken Marburger refinished the "2 Iron Good Damascus" barrels. For the OP Damascus Mythology & Reality https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LFnSG34k3mBhLEjEgU267wAlIa215MNVQZhIiY62Hx4/edit Barrel Strength, Composition & Birmingham Proof House Report of 1891 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dnRLZgcuHfx7uFOHvHCUGnGFiLiset-DTTEK8OtPYVA/edit Turn-of-the-Century Shotshells, Powder, Proof & Ballistics https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F2sQuPm05IE4VWYYnCkvuXmYEzQoWd_SQgaAfUOZEFU/preview Barrel Evaluation, Non-Destructive Testing & Load Recommendations https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZIo0y746UsSRZIgRuuxwAbZjSBHitO_EanvwLYc-kGA/edit
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,432 Likes: 34
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,432 Likes: 34 |
I also note there are variety of chamber adapters and not all are steel. I have chamber adapters from Browning (Little Skeeters with a Browning package), Seminole ChamberMates, and GaugeMate (Silver). The ChamberMates and the GaugeMates are stainless steel, and the Browning (Skeeters) are aluminum. I don't have GaugeMate Golds but I understand they are also stainless with a gold finish. The GaugeMates and ChamberMates are no longer made and getting hard to find. I shot ChamberMate 12/20 adapters for the dove opener with old Kent Gamebore 2-1/2" black powder loads and the inserts functioned flawlessly, including the extractors. This was in an 1880's Lacey Birmingham hammer gun with "Fine London Laminated" barrels. I recently got, but have not yet used, a pair of Briley SideKicks for my Parker Bros G-Grade Damascus top lever hammer gun. The Brileys appear to be all aluminum and they will see the field next week. I recently looked around for new production chamber adapters and everything I could find (other than Brileys and Little Skeeters) looks like stainless and is oriented to preppers and plinkers. Nothing for birds or clays with extractors.
|
|
|
|
|
