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Thank you Chuck, I may have to try the birdshot loads.

I don't recall seeing the option of the modern Spanish 2" guns mentioned. Arrieta made some. I believe AyA may have as well. And they're proofed to the same standards as a CIP "standard proof" gun. The negative is that they're heavier than the original Brit 2" guns, usually right around 6 pounds. If you look a bit, you can find 2 1/2" (and even the occasional 2 3/4") Brit 12 that light. So if you're going after a 2" gun for reduced weight, they don't make much sense. But if you believe the 2" load possesses some sort of magic, I guess it would make sense . . . but then you could also just buy the shells and shoot them in a very light 2 1/2" or 2 3/4" 12.

Larry, as I mentioned in a previous post that 7/8th. ounce game loads in 2 1/2" cases can be obtained and, as you assert, are ideal in a light double 12. They kill well if not stretched and are pleasant to use. I rarely use anything much heavier than 1 ounce or 1 1/16th. ounce for all my game shooting. I use my 2" gun just for the pleasure it gives. Very fast handling for flighting pigeons coming in to roost. They are scarce and not really being made any more. There might be the odd barrelled action floating around in the gun Trade but it would cost a lot to have one made up. I'm sure that Hollands or Purdeys would make up a nice 2" sidelock to order for not much under �100,000! Lagopus.....

Lagopus,

Here's a nice used 2" Purdey for $38,000. Although, it is a little heavier at 5lbs 10oz.

Ken

Purdey 2"

Thanks. I think I could live with the extra ounce or two for that beauty! Lagopus.....

Came in late. I used a2" Alex Martin 12b for 2 seasons. Absolutely the best grouse gun I ever owned. Themain difference for me was the handling requirements. The gun could not be manipulated. It demanded smooth acquisition with economy of motion. With proper technique it was a wand.

Curious, why is it no longer your grouse gun?

Many of the scribes and big bore adherents also bash patterns from .410s, especially in the heavier payloads, by playing the "increased bore scrubbing" and "increased setback damage" cards. Fact is, game birds can't tell the difference. And, after a lifetime of use in the field, I can't either.

If you put the load where it needs to be the bird doesn't know if it was killed with a 3/4 oz. 12 ga. load or a 3/4 oz. .410 load. And, you won't be able to tell the difference either. Writers feed off each other's writings, and hypothetical postulates are perpetuated. Field use, and the pattern plate, proves many of them wrong, wrong, wrong.

JR is exactly right. A 7/8 oz. load is better served today delivered from a 20 than a 12. Unless you own stock in RST, that is.

SRH

Stan do you ever tire of singing back up for JR'a ?

You sure do like to refer to the NEW pattern plate...you've had for years.

Why the need to troll a .410 into a 12 ga. thread ?

JR'a I hope that statement was meant as a joke....if it was it looks like yer bud Stan missed the punch line.

A 2" 12 gauge was made because it offered a squared load.

Do you really think English makers designed guns out of boredom ?