doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Dating a Screw Grip action

Hello,

An auction lot I happened to buy included the Army & Navy C.S.L. sidelock action below

[img]https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/download/file.php?id=6871[/img]


[img]https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/download/file.php?id=6872[/img]


[img]https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/download/file.php?id=6875[/img]

I have been told that in A&N ledgers the serial number 23682 would indicate the year 1925 but that the s/n is probably the original maker's. Based on the patent text on the top lever and a screw behind spindle screw, I feel that the action was made by P.Webley & Son during the Webley & Brain 1882 "Screw Grip" patent term.

Assuming the s/n 23682 is Webley's, does anyone happen to know the approximate manufacture date?

Thank You,
Markus

According to my records 23682 would be 1878. Here is a link

http://www.doublegunshop.com/dgsnos5.htm

Duplicate of previous response

Hello,

And thank you for the link.

However since that was before the 1897 amalgamation into Webley & Scott I wonder if the "Guns in Bold Typeface Webly & Scott" note in the serial number list might be erroneous for the years 1865...1897. I feel it likely that P.Webley & Son s/ns were separate from W.&C. Scott & Son's until the merger.

Regards,
Markus

Can not see anything that would indicate this gun was made to the Webley & Brain patent ?

Although I have only seen the action in a couple of photos as of yet, the patent text on the top lever, the screw behind spindle screw and spade extension mortise appear so similar to this ca. 1888...90 Webley patent A&N at http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=375671 that I thought it quite probable that the "Screw Grip" patent applied in my case also.



Regards,
Markus

Markus--I can't offer any help as to whether this is a screw grip based only on that photo. What I can tell you is that Webley & Scott used the screw grip action for a very long time. I owned a Webley & Scott boxlock, model 400 (Grade 1--the highest grade of that model). By the SN, it was made in 1924, and it was on the screw grip action. The Model 400 was in production until just after the end of WWII, when W&S replaced it with the Model 700.

I've also owned A&N's, and have received copies of the pages from their records on my guns. I would suggest that you request that information, because it's well worth the cost.

Once you have the gun in hand, you can tell very easily if it's a screw grip. Remove the barrels and look in the slot in the breech face. Rotate the top lever. You will be able to see the threads on the piece that engages the rib extension (which can be either a doll's head as on this gun, or a straight extension, as it was on my Model 400.)

It is a screw grip. If you look closely you can see the top lever sits inside a disc marked patent. That disc literally screws in to the action and provides a third bite, hence a "Screw Grip". Webley built and for a mass produced gun, excellent quality indeed.

Sometime's I regret selling that gun.

Hi Canvasback,

If your old Army & Navy also had a Webley serial number, do you happen to have it written down?

Additionally did you use the A&N s/n to confine the manufacture year in the roughly 1888 to 1890 region?

Regards,
Markus