doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Dave Carrie's new video on patterning a 410

Watched Dave Carrie's latest video on YOU TUBE on patterning a 419 using 2 1/2 and 3" shells.
Anybody else see it and have comments on killing range on a 410?

I have not seen the video, but in testing my own guns the 3 inch .410 shells pattern poorly with a very long shot string. The 2 1/2 were much better! Can you send a link for the video?

That video give you very little real information. Why pick such long ranges? What is the quality of ammo tested? Why only one shot per test? What chokes are tested? A skeet choke at 40 yards is not a reasonable test of anything. What velocity ? If you want to test a .410 set up reasonable things to test.

I�ve spent a lot of time testing .410�s. Everything matters when shooting a .410. Choke, velocity, quality of shot, wad and hull. Type of primer. Depth of crimp on shells. Just to pick a factory shell and shoot one at a pattern board is a complete waste of time with a .410. Range is a major concern. I test at 20,25,30 and 33 yards. Past 33 yards no .410 load I�ve tested looks using. None.

My current go to .410 is a model 42 with .022 choke. My best shells for hunting and most sporting clay are two different shells. For Sporting clays I shoot 1/2 ounce 8�s with a velocity of 1345 average FPS on my chrono. That�s what AAHS ammo gives me. For dove hunting I go with 7 1/2 mag. Hard shot, AAHS once fired empties, 300mp powder, AAHS factory wads, not the cheaper replacements, Winchester 209 primers and a velocity that runs 1305 FPS on my chrono. If velocity goes much past this my pattern spreads too much at long ranges and below 1250 I get too much center density. So 1300-1325 seems to be a sweet spot with my gun.

I also tested 3� ammo but have not found one load which gives me a major advantage over the 2 1/2� load I have. If I find one, and I fully expect to at some point I�ll add that to my shell bag. I already have a load which is fully capable of working well at 30 yards, 33+ on a good day. If a 3� shell ends up working as well or better then I�ll gladly shoot them as well.

I agree with your obsevations on the testing that was done. I had some of the same thoughts. I appreciate the testing and work that went into the video but when I heard 55 yards I had to go back to see if I heard that right. I didnt need to see the video to know the results would not be good.
Most of the shooting I have done with my 410�s has been on incoming short range shooting on doves, close range shooting over my dogs on quail both pen raised and wild pointed birds.
I shoot both 2 1/2� and 3� shells. Not a real measurable test but I shoot generally under 20 yards and do well.

The most obvious flaw in Carrie's dissertation is the implication that the pellets from the .410 have less energy than those of the same size from the 12. What a crock of bull! If the pellet is the same size and the velocity is the same the penetration or the energy delivered will be the same, regardless of the size bore it was fired from. It is beyond the pale that someone of his stature in the shotgunning community would assert such a thing.

When I hear such an assertion I have a hard time accepting anything else he says, and quite frankly have to wonder whether or not he has an "agenda".

SRH

He's one of the best long range shotgunners in the world.
55 yards is where he might pick up his gun.

It's not my thing, but it is HIS thing.

The only agenda might be that any crippling in the UK is frowned upon. So he wants some minimum # of penetrating hits at whatever range.
I didn't watch the video. (slow internet at 55 degrees north) Was he shooting at old CD's by his truck shed?
Live from Brora, Scotland.

To be totally fair I watched it again this morning, and I may have overstated when I said that he implied less penetration per pellet with the .410. That was not explicitly stated, and in my defense of the .410 on small game birds I may have put words in his mouth in my previous statement. Others can decide when they watch it.

What is more than obvious tho', is the unfair comparison between a "Spanish, or French" loaded .410 load which probably contained soft, cheap shot with no shotcup (notice where the basewad had pellets embedded in it and penetrated the cardboard at 40 yards. This is an indication of a cheap load) with a Black Gold Gamebore 12 ga. load of impeccable quality, which has hard shot and a full shotcup with petals (you can clearly see the shotcup on the video). He states at the end that this was only a layman's test, but in order to maintain any credibility he should have at least used a high quality load for the .410, if he was going to do so with the 12. To not do so could be construed as having an agenda against the .410.

Nobody in their right mind shoots game with a .410 at 55 yards, so that was really pointless, IMO. But, the pattern he showed from the .410 at 30 yards was not very good, and a clear indication of an inferior load. If he were to do this again he should state the chokes in each gun, and use high quality .410 loads, like the WW 3/4 oz. load that I shot this pattern with, with only .008" choke.



When you put out a video that is watched around the world, and begin by stating the inefficiency of the 1/2 oz. load on grouse, and state that it should never be a beginner's gun, you forget about the thousands of dove shooters for whom a .410 is entirely capable, even in the hands of a youngster. I'll agree the 28 may be better, but my 8 yr. old grandson killed 7 doves, on the wing, with a .410 on the first dove shoot I ever allowed him to shoot on, and he's no phenomenon, he was just coached carefully.

SRH

Oh how wrong you are there is a cult of people that claim to have shot wild turkeys with a foe ten at extreme ranges with mAgic fAiry dust sized shot...they like to call it TSS #9s shot.

It's made from pure tunsten mined in a foriegn country no doubt it's got to be radioactive because it has e'flicted these peoples brainz.

They'll be one along heA in a minute to set us straight.

Dave politely replies to all of his YouTube commenter�s.
His take might be interesting.
As I am traveling in a gun control country, with small retail volumes, He may not have access to premium 410 loads. FWIW Can�t really say.

I think he was using a Yildiz over and under. I do not have experience with these guns but I think the barrels would play some into the results as the ammo you use. He admitted he was using ammo he was not sure of the origin of. The quality of the shot and powder would make for odd results.