doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Vintage Gunner Cup venders ?

The Vintage Gunner Cup is coming up in 1 month at Hopkins' Game farm in Md and so far no list of venders seems to be available on Vintagers or Hopkins web sites. The shooting will I'm sure be good at Hopkins but many of us also travel to such double gun events to buy or sell, trade with gun venders. 2 of the largest are Steve Barnatt and J. Shacter a.k a. Vintage Doubles and they are the big draw. J Shacter was a no show at the Southern and at Hausmans even tho listed in advertisments for those shoots and while Steve Barnet was at both there are rumours he may not do the Vintagers' this year.

There were posts here in past years by Vintager lead men and I ask if one of them would post here the list of 2018 venders who have commited so those who need make plans and room reservtions can do in plenty of time if double gun shopping is there main reason for going ? Thank you.

-Joe

Jay opened up a storefront in Grand Rapids. Burning the candle at both ends in getting that up and going is what stopped him from attending the Southern and the NE.
He is up and running now, but I cannot say if I know if he will be attending ghe Vintage Cup.

All being well, myself and Bob Nay of MacNab Fine Firearms will be there. Sorry can't help you with who else.

Steve Barnett has told me he will be at Game Fair in Millbrook New York the week before the Vintagers in Maryland. I don�t think you�ll see him in Maryland.

This is a great question. The Lefever Arms Collectors Association finally received an invitation to display. However, I am having a hard time finding anybody to help me man a display. To be honest, if there aren't at least 150 shooters coming through Its hardly worth travelling 10 hours each way and manning a display. If the major vendors like Steve Barnett and Jay Schacter are not going to be there I doubt the turnout will be that large.
Please convince me that the LACA display would be worth the effort.

Several fall events split the market, not a large pool to draw from. Shooters or vendors won�t attend all.

Boats

From my last visits and discussions with Steve Barnett, he is cutting back on these events. Not sure about his immediate schedule.
JR

I know Steve was very disappointed with the event last year and a few other vendors said the same thing. It is not the old "Vintage Cup" !

The Sandanona Game Fair In Millbrook NY is 9/15 & 16 with free entry.

There you go......... like I said this is not the Old Vinagers Shoot I wish it was

The Vintage Gunners Cup is free entry.

There are posts on the Parker forum in effect that Barnett and Shackter won't be at the VGC this year.

Then people will actually have to give a look at some of the smaller vendors.

No offense to big vendors, but the small ones usually have better buys

To my mind the Vintage Cup is an interesting event and in the past one that most of us double gun shooters and members of this BBS wanted to attend, especially when it was held at Millbrook, NY, a venue easy to "get to".

The reasons to attend are several and they include shooting, viewing the goods of the vendors, buying from vendors, meeting with comrades and so forth.

My guess is that the Vintage Cup executive's prospects is to make a profit and that they make vast majorityof their profit from the number of vendor "tables they sell", and if the vendors stop coming, then the event turns to a mostly non-event of just a bunch of us guys getting together to shoot.

I do not know why large vendors such as the one discussed above want to go to a event where they do not expect excellent odds of selling several guns. An example is last year's Fall Southern SxS that had the 0 amount of national vendors there and only 2-3 gun vendors in total. To my mind the 2017 Fall Southern SxS event was a "Vendor participation dud".

This BBS site is the number 1 site for double gun enthusiasts. So therefore it should be an excellent reference for a case study in anything to do with the Vintage Cup or other double gun event attendance.

Therefore, all of you who are absolutely 100% no doubt about it going to go the Vintage Cup held at Hopkins Farm in Eastern Maryland this year (2018) indicate it by posting below, and we will be able to see what the interest is in this event from the members of this site.

Going.

I am going with one of my sons

I regret I have never been to a vintage event. Between calendar conflicts and the simple distance from Topeka, it has never worked out. Even Bobski�s shoot That looks like great fun and is close falls on a conflict weekend every year.

I am attending because the Parker annual meeting is there this year.

I'm going with my camper to stay onsite. I am bringing my brother up with his motor home for his first Vintage Cup.

Please bear in mind that Vintage SxS shoots are not NSCA shoots. In my experience only 10% of attendees pre-register. Some dealers dither about committing, but I don't have a feel for a percentage.

I signed up for the Southern SxS in Mid April this year only 10 days ahead of the shoot. I was shooter 43. I believe I saw a 400+ shooter go by on the last day.

That is very different from a major NSCA shoot that sells out online in very little time.

I think what everyone (myself included) should do is register for at least one event early. It will help Hopkins get a feel for the head count. We can always buy more events as the weekend unfolds.

Joe in Charlotte

I wonder what percentage of us who attended The Vintage Cup at Sandanona from 1999 through 2006, are still around and attending such events.

I am. Been to every Cup since the 2nd at Addieville. Probably 1998 or so.

Wonderful!

A lot less bloviating.

The Parker, Fox and LC Smith collectors groups are all going to be at the Vintage Cup. The PGCA is holding their annual meeting.

The big 3 domestic SxS collectors are showing up at the Vintage Cup. It makes me wonder... Where are the dealers that sell to them? It seems, to me, a cheap shot to wonder why the Vintage Cup hasn't attracted the dealers they want to see. Every coin has 2 sides. My question would be why haven't the various collectors associations pressed their favorite dealers to show up?

I have watched the Parker/ LC Smith tail-gate sale parties down in the field during the Southern SxS for several years. I can only assume the shoppers and sellers would prefer to deal out of trunks rather than spend a few extra bucks to buy a table and support the event/hosts.

The Vintagers have always looked forward to Kirby Hoyt, Toby Barclay, Robin Hollow, CSMC, Jay from FieldSport, RST and Bob Nay of MacNab to attend. All of them have a fine selection of guns for us to shop.

I like Steve Barnett. Last year he came to the Vintage Cup with many tables of Purdeys. Sadly, the shoppers just weren't there for him.

We as buyers/trader-up folks, have hit a wall. Our dealers transitioned to primarily consignment guns. The TRADE, part of buy-sell-trade is dead when the dealer has to take your gun in trade for a consignment gun. It means that dealer has to tie up his capital in HIS inventory to take your gun.

I sold 2 guns and bought one last year. Most of the Carolina Vintagers who attended bought a gun or 2.

The Collectors Associations are provided their tables gratis at our annual event. The Vintagers make nothing from their attendance, unless they join us.

Basically, they ride for free on our event. As a Vintager, I am happy to have more SxS shooters attend the Vintage Cup. We are trying to rebuild the event to it's best days at Orvis Sandannoa. Bringing in Parker, Smith, Fox, Ithaca, Remington and Lefever shooters can only help grow our SxS events.

Joe in Charlotte
(having said my piece)

T'is my back yard. I'll be there.

As a small vendor that attends a few of these events a year, I can say that the cost to be a vendor at events like the Southern and the Vintage Cup is sinply way too high to make sense. At $600 or more for a basic booth, plus the cost of travel and hotel, you have to move a lot of merchandise to cover that. And most do not. The way I see it, most are lucky to sell a gun or two or maybe trade into something and not many have the sort of margins to cover the expenses.

It is turning into a chicken or the egg scenario. The buyers want the vendors, but the vendors NEED the buyers. People need to spend money or the vendors are not going to turn up. They can book losses for only so many shows in a row before they stop attending.

Other shoots are much more reasonably priced for vendors, which makes it better, but people still need to soend money.

Back in the late 70s and early 80s our company would attend various home shows in our area to hopefully make some sales. We found that few people would commit at the show, but the exposure generated sales for months after the show was over. It's a good way to get out there and meet your customers.
terc

Vintage gun sales today is an Internet enterprise. The only reason a big dealer would book a booth at these events is simply for exposure - they can't really hope to sell enough guns to cover their nut. At one of these events a buyer may buy a gun. He has had a bit of time to look it over and make his decision to buy or not to buy... but if he buys, generally, it is a "all sales final" purchase. If he sees a gun he likes on the Internet he can say "sure, I'll buy that gun - and then when he receives it he has three whole days to come to grips with his decision and choose to return it, no questions asked - or he can choose to keep it - those are usually the terms these days.

Why would a large dealer ever show up at one of these events when the prospective buyer knows how Internet sales favor him, the buyer?

With respect I disagree. Exposure is only a small element when large gun dealers do the shows. Talking with several dealers many times at shows - shoots, many are there to buy or trade into better walk in guns at good prices and especially in prime areas like Sandanona - Orvis in NY and other places in east nearby the old gun company factories or near larger metro areas where well heeled people lived in the past. On sales, many want to see - handle and even try shoot guns before they buy and don't want to go through sending certified money and shipping to their Ffl and having then to make a quick decision to do a fed. background check at some cost for the 3 day inspection out of the shop and-or return shipping and chancing damage in return shipment and then trying to get full refund from the carrier while the gun seller may or may not accept a returned damaged gun. Good targets are a plus for those that shoot a lot but IMHE the presence - absence of double gun dealers is a large factor that will make or break a double barrel gun shoot and I wonder why the organizers don't do ~ gratis tables for these larger double gun vendors for their attraction factor.

Gratis tables on large vendors? For what purpose?

I am sure that large vendors taking up a lot of square footage get a bit of a break as it is, maybe not. I don�t know.

Instead of choking out the little guy, make space more reasonably priced for all.

Having vendors at a shoot is a draw for me. This year the Tunnel of Tree's shoot has decided not have a vendor tent which may make or break their future shoots. Time will tell.
Karl

There are generally no vendors at the California Side by Side Society events, but a nice room full of member displays.









http://www.casxs.com/index.php

I will be there

Those that did not attend the Vintage Cup shoot years ago bitched that they had to pay admission, even if they did not shoot. If you signed up for one event and prepaid, you got in gratis.
How many guns shows are free? I don't know what it costs to have the tent put up, or rent a hall for a show, but it isn't cheap.
The success of these shoots is having shooters shoot, and vendors there to look at their merchandise. As was stated earlier, a shoot without vendors is just a shoot.

A successful shoot needs shooters and vendors. And the vendors need purchasers. Maybe the buyers just aren't buying

Maybe the guns are too expensive is why the buyers aren�t buying.